BJean

Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists? What is the CV of the Crufts vet?

What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well. No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in. I have to wonder about the judges along the way also... In the first instance you should probably wonder what is fact and what is fiction ? It is interesting that confidential vet reports are finding their way to, well everywhere ... This is the Clumber, I do not know why it was DQ'd: AM/DK/H/BIH/SCG/A/LUX CH Chervood Snowsun. The five-year-old bitch took the Challenge Certificate at the 2010 Crufts and was Best of Opposite Sex at the 2011 AKC/Eukanuba National Championship. Not only does she have an impressive show resume, she has also proved herself in field trials and came to play with documented health test results–A/A hips, 0/0 elbows, healthy patellas, a clear eye certificate & DNA tested clear of PDP1.

Lots of stories are going to go around I think. Inevitably story lines will be mixed and exchanged also.

All very well ... but what has it got to do with the three individual dogs DQ'd at Crufts? The owners' report that the Bulldog was not DQ for movement or breathing, neither the Peke or the Clumber.

woops dble post

HOME NEEDED FOR BIG DOOFAS ANATOLIAN MALE Dost was left at the RSPCA in Burwood, Victoria. He is 10 months old. Dost will mature 31-32" and weigh 65-75 kiloograms. Dost is looking for a home who need a family companion/guardian and who would love to decorate their house with some Anatolian fur :D Dost is a friendly Anatolian, BUT due to his size and exuberant nature, he is suited to homes with children over 12yo. Urgent! I will also assist the new home with ongoing breed specific advice, training, diet, etc. Dost is in urgent need to find a home, but most of all, Dost needs to go to the RIGHT home. Dost is a pure bred Anatolian and will have the general temperament traits of a large, confident male Anatolian. Dost is unregistered but I do have information of his background and lineage. For general information please contact myself, for adoption specific questions, please contact the RSPCA Burwood: 9224 2222. Thank you.

Yes this is how dogs from Turkey are registered in France, and to varying degrees dogs from Turkey with the AKC in USA. The problem when one breed is the recent adjunct from another established breed (ie: when a colour type within a breed, is classified as a breed) is that the breed differentiation struggles to be meaningful. Even though some CC's may classify the breed as a distinct, the breed's real delineation remains the ethos of breeders. If the breed delineation was real, there would be a clear visual differentiation also. I don't believe such breed delineation (as recently exampled by the ANKC Kangal), remains stable over time. What is regarded as cross breeding depends entirely on the CC politics of the day. Ex: From 1998 - 2011 Anatolian and Kangal were separate breeds in Australia. As of Jan 1, 2012, Both breeds are now regarded as one breed, and 'cross bred' litters are being registered. I was once rebuked in earnest as to why Anatolian and Kangal are not the same breed: "If Anatolian and Kangal are the same, why does ANKC register them as two separate breeds?" I could not begin to explain ... so I just smiled and said, "Yes, okay." I do not know WSS or GSDs, so have no informed comments on the WSS and white GSD breed delineation process However, what became apparent with ANKC Kangal, was the ANKC and breeders within the ANKC, cannot determine breed parameters of their own accord - other than breed parameters for breeds where the country of origin is Australia. A lot can happen within a breed and its parent breed over the years. I do not think the ultimate result of WSS and GSD is determined at this time :)

I did that last year, had a bitch in whelp moved to a cat4 country so I could get what I needed, its not a new rule, but a way to get a dog from a Cat 6 country that are not allowed in Aus from direct import. No, it is not the same thing :) Previously, a dog had to have a complete three generation pedigree AND all dogs in that pedigree to be from ANKC recognised CCs. Now dogs can be imported and registered with the ANKC, as long as the dog's pedigree is issued by an ANKC recognised CC. Without a pedigree issued by an ANKC recognised CC, dogs from countries where there is no ANKC recognised CC (ie: Turkey) cannot be re-registered by the ANKC. This is independent to the AQIS process that requires the dog to live in a category 4 country for 7 to 9 months before arriving in Australia.

Yes, that is what I was meaning, I didn't mean to export and then reimport the same dog just to get it registered! Yes for ex: dog from Turkey goes to USA, then offspring from the same dog is imported to Australa with an AKC pedigree.

Not just the AKC but other countries CCs the ANKC recognises. Yes AKC / FCI and KC would be the main ones. I just checked the reg rules, the three generations / complete pedigree specification is no longer mentioned, so it is possible to import direct offspring from the exported dog.

I think that was stopped. Just to clarify. NEVER, has an ANKC White German Shepherd EVER been re-registered as a White Swiss Shepherd Dog overseas. Non ANKC (Unregistered) White Shepherds, have however, been exported & assessed against the standard & accepted for re-rego as a WSS in countries that have an open stud book. These indivdiual dogs can NOT be imported back into Australia as WSSD as they will not fulfil the pedigree requirement for re-registration of an imported dog with the ANKC. The new registration ruling deems it possible for the offspring to be imported to Australia and registered with the ANKC. A lot depends on how the o/s breed club registry running the open stud book records their pedigrees. The ANKC has to recognise all AKC / FCI pedigrees, even if the registries of the dogs in the background (ie three generations) are not recognised by the ANKC.

The 40,000 includes the cost to transport the dog from UK to Australia ... in any case, the vet should be guiding the owner to make decisions based on what will be of real benefit to the dog and improve its quality of life; not what is 'treatable' in theory. Lovely looking dog though!

oh my goodnesses! Anne how could you but yes Anne, exactly :)

Unethical everythings are everywhere. It happens. Get over it.

There is a DOL member who breeds Sarp but I forget their name I know of Sarp and have seen some in Vic, but for the most part, the number of cross bred Sarp, far exceed the number of pure bred Sarp.

woops dble post

It depends where you get the dog from ... Sarp is crossed with Leonberger in Vic and rough coat Anatolian/Kangal. I think there is one breeder who actually imported two dogs ... they're not my thing so I don't remember the details much. RE red: do you mean red fawn? Probably best to post a photo.

They are not that big :) large but not Huge :)

Who gets to decide: generally the dogs and the people around them. Environment and culture impact the selective process of a breed. Therefore a hunting dog specifically bred for pigs and utilized in the Australian environment (ie people, landscape and other animals) would be unique to all other hunting dogs.

I'm judging her, and I have every right to judge her. The woman used "GAP is full" as an excuse! What a misleading thing to say . Dishonestly trying to present herself as a person that didn't have the option of putting the dog in the program. She is a miserable low-life that doesn't value dogs unless she can make money from them. Disgusting. That's my judgement and I stand by it. :laugh: I guess she should have said GAP run at full capacity ... ..or maybe "GAP cannot take this dog, at this time now, and I have run out of options for her".... ..or "I am a miserable low-life that doesn't value dogs unless I can make money from them".... Who knows. I don't. If the options had run out it is because she didn't care enough to plan in advance, or is not willing to look after the dog for a few more months. As a Victorian racing participant she would have been informed in writing of what her options are so she could make plans at the appropriate time. She mentioned GAP as an excuse for what she did, and she did it dishonestly. She offered no other excuse. She expected people to accept that excuse, because people generally do not understand how to place a dog in GAP. But now everyone here has been informed of how GAP does work, her dishonesty has been revealed. Don't try to offer excuses for dishonesty even if you do excuse what happened to the dog. No not really, just your version. In your own online world your version would be absolute, but the OP account, is about a person and their dog - not you. And unless you know that person's circumstance your supposition is just that.

I'm judging her, and I have every right to judge her. The woman used "GAP is full" as an excuse! What a misleading thing to say . Dishonestly trying to present herself as a person that didn't have the option of putting the dog in the program. She is a miserable low-life that doesn't value dogs unless she can make money from them. Disgusting. That's my judgement and I stand by it. :laugh: I guess she should have said GAP run at full capacity ...

?? Some dogs are not suitable to be rehomed. It happens.

Hmm the problem is that with time and by weight of numbers their dogs will become the norm and reduce the median for BC's. The divide maintains the difference for now, but it is a stalemate that has no solution other than the eventual change of the BC guard. Which will result in a change of BC ethos, as new owners with their different perspective of ideal BC and colour, replace the establishment. Regarding price, I would ask, what are they new breeders doing right or different that makes puppy buyers happy to pay that much more for their dogs. Maybe established breeders can incorporate some colours or try and improve the physical type of coloured BC's? or maybe introducing colours is heresy I don't know :) What is the difference between Choc/white and Choc tricolour? The difference between Chocolate/White and Chocolate tricolour is Chocolate/white is the only colour allowed to be registered on the Main Registration. Australia's breed standard does not recognise Chocolate tricolour or Chocolate Merle, so to keep these dogs in a breeding program, they are incorrectly registered as another colour. Sorry I meant what does a chocolate/white BC look like and what does a chocolate tricolour look like?

wow so misinformed ah the ye olde days ... when animal welfare was animal welfare and not a social campaign.

No showing or breeding, agility, obedience, means that no adults or puppies need to find a home either, it's not just the racing industry that has unwanted or excess dogs, although they probably contribute a large %. I can see that there has been a shift by some owners/trainers, towards having less dogs, breeding less puppies and putting 100% into the few dogs that they have. There is still the old school of breed masses of them and hope to god that one can run and the rest are destroyed and I really don't like that. I wonder if the dog in the OP had not been a Greyhound, if people would have objected in the same way to it being euth'd. I very much doubt that Lucy was the only unwanted dog to die at that clinic today No but she was the most emotive. And anyway PL, your line of thinking does not have the welfare of the animal at heart ... and dare I say the nation! You cannot saw sawdust PL.