westiemum

.Agreed RMS. I too many years ago talked to a puppy farmer about buying a dog from him. But as part of my research I found DOL and didn't buy. My dogs have always been older dogs from registered breeders or purebreed puppy farm rescues. But I've spoken with a number of registered purebreeders to help friends out when I couldn't source a rescue for them. And my experience was similar. If they only knew the damage they were doing by treating people so badly. But at the same time, I'm not going to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'. So despite that experience, I still believe in purebreeds and good registered purebreeders and will continue to support them, including the eventual registration of the cobberdog. I think companion dogs are too important not to.

Steve happy to defer on some points and disagree on others. I respectfully ask that you read my posts properly. Apologies for the long post. While I don't like these cross breeds, the unintended consequences of cross-marketing of cross breeds and the industry of deception that surrounds them, I have said that I recognise they are here to stay and suggested years ago before registration that registration was a better way to go - and got howled down. The registration of the cobberdog, while welcome, does not deal with the issue of the rampant cross-breeding and false marketing of cross-breeds to the general public. But yes its a step in the right direction and may eventually help marginalise the mass cross-breeders - which will be a good thing. I agree. However the number of these dogs who are dumped because they do not live up to the claims of their breeder ('non-shedding' or size being the biggies - ie false marketing) would suggest that there are many people making uneducated cross-breed choices on the basis of false information. And thats the major point of my post: false cross-breed marketing. FB and the newbie threads here show time and time again that the general public do not make the distinction between responsible cross-breeders and puppy farmers/irresponsible ones - in time they may, but not now. These cross-breeders simply come up with a marketing terms and false information to sell their puppies. Why do these cross-breeders come up with these cutesy marketing terms in the first place instead of describing them by their cross? The answer is to claim their dogs are something they are not and to mislead and falsely market them using false information (non-shedding, hypo-allergenic, kid friendly, 'family dogs' etc etc). What defines a 'family dog'? What type of 'family'? Its nothing but a marketing term. If this was any other industry or 'product', the ACCC would be very interested in their claims. The fact that many cross-breed puppies are still sold through petshops and online as impulse buys and end up in pounds, compared with the numbers of purebreeds in pounds proves the point. At least most (not all) registered pure breeders and hopefully now most Cobberdog cross breeders will try and ensure their puppies go to thoughtful homes with truthful information. You're right - some purebreeders are horrible and are a big part of the problem. On that we absolutely agree. There are a couple of registered purebreeders I know of who I steer well clear of and never recommend. They are truly nasty, take gate-keeping to a ridiculous degree and do everyone a grave disservice. But there are some fantastic ones as well - and thats where I send people who ask me. Horrible breeders are not restricted to purebreeders. The mass cross-breed puppy farmers I have dealt with have been cruel patronising money hungry lying b*st*rds, And most backyard cross-breeders are not much better. So IMO this is not about 'horrible breeders' who sadly exist everywhere. Its about a group of cross-breeders who falsely represent and market what they are selling to the general public. Of course not - rescue is not infallible either - but the fostering system increases the chances of a good match as opposed to an uninformed response to false cross-breed marketing on looks or characteristics which the false marketing of these crossbreeds encourages. The best protection the puppy buying public has is to buy from someone who loves the breed, knows the breed, breeds for betterment of the breed and socialises their puppies well - and that ain't a cross-breed puppy farmer. Yet as I keep saying the general public do not make that distinction between responsible or irresponsible cross-breeders or do their homework. If they did, most would not buy online or from petshops (and they would go out of business). How many DOLers have said 'I bought my cross-breed from a petshop/mass-breeder when I didn't know any better'? I have no affiliation with the ANKC and would welcome proper registration under another affiliated body - not a problem - as long as there is some control somewhere. Steve I know you have worked really hard on breed development and you are probably one of the biggest advocates of the cobberdog in Australia. And with guarding against unintended consequences such as false cross-marketing, this cross-breed probably has a bright future, eventually as a registered breed. And that's genuinely a good thing. But IMO Cobberdog cross-breeds or registration as a purebreed are not a panacea to the problem of rampant cross-breeding and false cross-breed marketing to the general public. Not everyone who wants a cross breed will consider a cobberdog, wants a cobberdog or even know they exist - so they'll likely respond to false marketing of other crossbreeds and around the cycle will go again.

Great article - thanks Perse. I'm the provider of gourmet doggie meals, lounge cuddles, and half a QS bed! And I better not ever fall down on the job!!!

Thanks Mackiemad - maybe I'm not explaining myself too well. We all agree on the puppy issue of puppy farms (I hope). The point I'm trying to make that some here seem to be missing is that the distinction between puppy farmers and those 'who love their animals' is a false one from a marketing to the general public perspective. The so called responsible cross-breeders who charge insane prices for a cross breed on the back of cutesy pie marketing terms (cavoodle, cobberdog etc) to a gullible public, indirectly cross-market the puppy farms. The general public who can't or won't pay their insane prices and don't know any better go looking elsewhere - bingo - they find cheaper easily available crossbreeds online or at petshops. In the mind of the gullible public they are all one and the same thing as FB demonstrates time and time again - simply breeders of designers dogs. The only differential is the price and availability. So until these 'responsible' cross-breeders have an ANKC recognised breed, are subject to registration, use the breed term exclusively and properly to describe their dogs (breed to a breed standard) or use the proper cross-breed term in the meantime and market their dogs truly to the public with correct information and therefore distinguish themselves from the puppy farmers I won't support them. Terms like cobberdog and cavoodle (deliberately?) mislead the public into thinking its a 'registered pure breed' when its not. I have no doubt the day will come when a stable one of these cross-breeds will be ANKC recognised and named - and that will be a very good thing as I said years ago - but its not today. And in the meantime me and many others will continue to pick up the pieces of puppy farm rescues like Mac and Andy... (Flame suit on).

I take your point Bushriver, but while purebred registered breeders aren't regulated either, at least the many are registered (unlike cross-breeders and BYBers) , many of them show to improve the breed and they adhere to a code of ethics and don't set up mass breeding facilities to mislead and pander to a gullible public and make a quick buck at the expense of the breeding dogs they use. While of course there are not so good purebreed breeders around, at least the majority put dog welfare and breed betterment first and at least the public can view parents and research the breeder in a transparent way - which can't be said for these cross-breed puppy farmers. The puppy farm I used to 'visit' and where my two male westies came from would not give out its address before a visit and operated with the utmost secrecy. You had to travel two hours before being given a map at a servo in the local town for final directions. And the place was scary, down a long road, hidden from main view. And the breeders there thought it was terribly funny that their breeding dogs never set foot on grass and proudly showed run after run of unsocialised dogs in concrete cages. Hundreds of them. You really have to visit these places to know what 'hell on earth' looks like.

I got a lot of small terriers, too. You would think that if someone selects for large/giant, they probably mean that they don't want a small dog? Awww! Go and get a westie Maddy! The selector's telling you you want one! It'd die of boredom pretty quickly, I think The average greyhound/whippet day around here goes like this: Sleep in until noon, preferably on the big bed. Ooze out of bed around 1pm and wander outside for a quick wee. On the way back to bed, refill the tank with some breakfast/lunch. Take a quick power nap until 7pm. 7pm also happens to be dinner time for kids, slob out to the kitchen to mooch food off children. Go back to bed to charge up for zoomies time, around 11pm. Hoon around the house/yard/over the couch for 20 minutes, grab a last bite to eat and then go to bed around midnight. Rinse, repeat. Sometimes I wonder if they get bored with that lifestyle but I guess it's hard to tell when they look like this: Bored? Sounds ideal for a westie - except a trot rather than a zoomie for my lot! And Sarah leaves the bed in the morning about 9ish (and I get the evil eye for waking her), out to have a wee and some breaky, then onto the lounge of the rest of the day. Listen for the sound of chopping... Ah! Dinner!!! Zoom into the kitchen and get under Mum's feet. Wolf down dinner, back to the lounge. Mid evening wee before being carried to bed. Repeat.

I got a lot of small terriers, too. You would think that if someone selects for large/giant, they probably mean that they don't want a small dog? Awww! Go and get a westie Maddy! The selector's telling you you want one!

Yes thanks ness very true. And highly likely around here it was a grass seed. Its looking better but poor little man is still licking.

Good post pooch mad. And as I said years ago, the jeanie is out of the bottle and these cross-breeds are here to stay. What I continue to object to is the false marketing, lies and industry of mass-breeding misery that has grown up around these dogs and the fact they often end up in the pound. I know... I've said it before and in Mac's memory and for Andy I'll continue saying it. I think there are parts of Aus that are starting to deal with the puppy farm problem - but not here. And the so called division between so called responsible cross breeders and puppy farmersis not as clear cut as people would imagine - as they each cross-market each other (marketing 101). And until these so called responsible cross-breeders, properly differentiate themselves from the puppy farmers, stop using cutesy-pie marketing terms and preying on a gullible public, call the dog what it is (a so and so cross-breed), stop making claims that are clearly false about their dogs, demonstrate proper ethical breeding practices consistently and price fairly I can't support them. The thing to never forget is they are competition to registered pure breeders who do the right thing - and they compete using marketing falsehoods. If this was any other 'product' (or service) they would be in front of the ACCC. And dogs, (a 10 -15 year commitment) are too important to let that stand by unchallenged. They are not toothbrushes to be marketed and sold as the latest you beaut version (non-shedding, hypoallergenic or colour... rolley eyes here). Next they'll be claiming they pick up their own poo! (Sorry - exaggeration but you get my drift) And because of their pricing. (7k for a cross-breed!? You have to be kidding!) and false marketing, as you point out it makes people go hunting for cheap badly bred puppy farm cross-breeds and confused cross-marketing (deliberate or not) perpetuates the cycle. On Andy and Mac's behalf it makes me so angry and I'll continue saying so. Its just not that simple.

I'd disagree that the ridiculous names are just slang. "Mutt" or "mongrel" is slang, Cavoodabeagledor is the very deliberate marketing of an animal as something prestigious and exclusive, even though they're churned out in droves. Some people don't want to be seen buying "mutts" (hurrhurr) from dirty backyard breeders who call them by their breeds names (like "shitzoo cross moltese terriors") and only charge $250 each. They want their new dog gift-wrapped in shiny bullsh*t*, not picked out of a laundry basket, in someone's backyard. *Like being hypo-allergenic and non-shedding and being born automatically great with kids, etc. *like* Couldn't agree more. The complete BS which surrounds the marketing of these cross-breeds frustrates me to tears.

OM goodness! What a beautiful place. On the bucket list...

Thank for posting that T. I was at a friends place in the Adelaide Hills last night and noticed Andy licking his back right paw. Had a closer look and he's licked it raw and theres a raised red area with quite big puncture mark in the middle. I gave him an anti-inflammatory when I got home and bathed it in saline solution and finished with Neotopic. Its still there this morning but it looks better. Whatever it was I'm not sure if he picked it up at the dog park earlier in the week (unlikely I think), in my backyard or in my friends backyard... We're not known for ticks here either but I wonder if it was a tick? Don't know... hmm...

Good question Jules.

mowgliandme I'm not following what you're trying to say in your first para. I don't hate them - yes I dislike them. I absolutely object to the gullible public falling for spurious marketing of non-shedding (no such thing), hypo-allergenic, non-smelling etc etc dogs, then not getting what they paid for and then dumping them in pounds (or worse) for rescue to pick up the pieces. The pounds are full of these dogs. Go and look. I also absolutely object to the conditions that the mass cross-breeders keep their dogs in - my Andy and Mac were two of them. And yes I visited the puppy farm they came from. it was hell on earth . The ones I have met time and time again are unco, bad mannered and ugly adults even if they were cute as pups - in other words 'badly bred'. One thing we agree on is that there needs to be a distinction between unethical mass cross-breeders and the few responsible cross-breeders that I'm told are out there. And until the unethical profit-driven cross-breeders are stamped out then the problems with these dogs and their unethical marketing to the gullible public will continue who will almost always buy cheaper dogs rather than quality, almost regardless of what any responsible cross breeder does.

SG happy to agree to disagree. I was using the oodle term as a generic term for so many of these cross-breeds marketed under the cross-breed marketing terms - 'pugalier' 'beagleir' etc etc. - not just the poodle crosses. The issue is the cross breed popularity which is driving unethical people to mass breed these cross breeds purely for profit and the gullible public and damn the results or the dogs suffering behind the scenes. They do not breed to improve the cross (with I'm told a couple of exceptions). Its a demand and supply issue - if the gullible public didn't buy these cross-breeds then these unethical cross-breeders would have no demand for their 'product' and would stop.

Thanks Boronia. I usually buy the 100gm packs from my vet as by the time I add postage the price difference is zero/negligible.

SM can't recommend it highly enough. And the bag I bought earlier this week had a bonus 10g pack on it - so you could use the ten gram pack to see if it suited your dog and return the unopened 100gm pack if it didn't work for your dog.

I recognise times are changing, particularly in the many years since I proposed on DOL that doodle cross-breeders needed to be regulated under the same umbrella as purebred breeders given the jeanie was well and truly out of the bottle and I got completely howled down (yes folks that was me about 8 years ago!). I also know there may be a time when doodles are recognised breeds bred by responsible breeders. But that time is not now. And while there might be some responsible doodle cross-breeders it it is not a recognised breed now, nor will it be in the foreseeable future. For me the problem remains - the more popular these cross breeds become the more unethical people will want to make a quick buck and damn the cross breeding results or the puppy factory/industry of misery behind them, regardless of what any responsible cross-breeder does. And yes I would be interested to know how many of these doodle owners who bought from petshops and puppy farms have actually viewed the conditions the parents of these cross-breeds are kept in On a personal level, my poor old wobbly Sarah couldn't even quietly sniff around the dog park, minding her own business last Monday afternoon without getting bowled over by one of these stupid 'globs' of dogs. Other dogs at the dog park introduced themselves well - except the 'glob' of course with its clueless owner. So my name is westiemum and I do not like these doodle cross breeds. I admit my bias but I also will never forgive how my Andy and departed Mac were abused and neglected breeding these 'glob' dogs for a gullible public. And until that stops... my name is westiemum and... And yes to me they are gangly, unco and butt ugly. How anyone can look at the video that Krislin posted of the whippet and mates and then choose a noodle I'll never know. Flame suit on...

Same here Sheridan - you only need to have done primary school genetics to know its a lottery. Some people are really silly - they make a 10 - 15 year commitment and do less research than their next car or pair of running shoes!

Was at the dog park yesterday - absolutely beautiful GSD, Dane, OES, staffy, lab... and the only problem child was this big 'glob' of a dog (thanks Maddy - thats exactly the right description) - oodle of some sort and HUGE! Stupid thing had no social skills whatsoever - my 15 year old Sarah gave him 'what for' - she has a fierce reputation of putting badly behaved puppies and dogs in their place. I was less than impressed and Maddy I absolutely agree with your post - this thing was a really butt ugly dog. And yes you've helped me put my finger on why i dislike these dogs so much - and apart form the Mac/puppy farm connection they are generally really stupid and somehow 'purposeless' - they are such a mixture that they end up being nothing! So not my thing either.

Just resurrecting this thread - I ran out of 4cyte and Sarah missed out for a week or two. I finally got my act together and she started back on it on Monday. Because she had a gap, I'm giving her a loading dose for a couple of days before dropping her back again to the maintenance dose - and can't believe what a difference its made. She's walking so much better. I'm really sold on this stuff!

Thanks for posting K. Just fabulous watching dogs do what they are bred to do. That Whippie is fantastic - for the first half s/he barely gets out of third gear, then vroom!

Happy gotcha day beautiful!! Here's to many many more!

Including my bed and the lounges my guys have 7 beds inside and another two outside! Spoilt rotten they are! And SM for me the plastic cover over the foam and under the outer cover - essentially two covers - is the absolute clincher for Orvis. I have an old occasionally incontinent girl (she sometimes seems to go so deeply asleep that she occasionally wets - and gets very upset) - so the plastic cover is a Godsend. And if I'm being really honest, part of it is aesthetics - the Orvis look really good and IMO are good enough for the lounge room. As someone else said, I don't understand why dog beds have to be made of such crappy material and be so bog ugly! So does anyone know if there are any beds in Australia which supply a plastic zipped inner lining over the foam? Genuine question cos I'll look at them if they do.

Maybe just buy the cover and stuff it yourself as Roova did? There's an XX one on sale in her link which is dirt cheap at $118 (relatively). I didn't do that 'cos I needed memory foam for my 15 + year old girl. And I priced memory foam at Clark Rubber and there was negligible difference in cost so I bought the whole thing from Orivs. But as I said, Henry Hottie is a good option IMO too - Michelle there is great and very helpful- and didn't yell at me when I got ultra fussy about the size of the bed I ordered for Andy after Mac died (I wasn't myself and she was great). Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.