westiemum

I haven't had a doggie in this situation Jessca, but it did occur to me that barf patties might suit your little one - very healthy and contain lots of goodies, would be a way of her getting meat, yet they would probably be soft enough for her - particularly the pork ones. My westies have half a pattie a day and with veggies are thriving on them... or maybe mash the pattie with some soft veggies like pumpkin? Just a thought... Cheers, Westiemum Ed 'cos I can't spell and type at the same time!

Thanks for that - yes I've found their service really good and importantly their prices are just as good too, including very reasonable shipping/postage. And no I have no connection with them in case anyone's wondering!! Cheers, Westiemum

Yep thanks Mooper. Thought I'd mention it again in case anyone knew of any better prices anywhere, or just as importantly, anything new on the market which might be of help to our arthritic oldies... but I'm pleased to say it seems not!! Cheers Westiemum :rolleyes:

Hi Lyndsay :rolleyes: How's Uni going BTW? Yep that pumpkin is marvellous stuff - my guys love it as well and it really helps in keeping their weight under control. I still think that weight control is more than half the battle with these dogs with joint problems. Cheers, Westiemum

Thansk for the reminder chezzyr. You can get the Joint Guard treats for a good price at the site I listed above - they just aren't actually. Must put them on my list too. Cheers Westiemum

Hi Everyone, Yes I'm hunting around for Joint Guard again... and I think Trent at Greyhound Products Direct here still wins hands down... Anyone do better anywhere than 55.50 (inc GST) for 400gms + 4.50 P & H? Or are there any new products similar to Joint Guard around which anyone can recommend? Thanks, Westiemum :D

Great post Kelly Louise - That's great that things worked out so well for Chloe too. Your post really well illustrates the difference between general vets and specialists I think - a very good point - mine is a general vet with excellent surgical skills who I can absolutely rely on to tell me if anything that is required is outside his expertise or experience - so your advice is spot on . Yet I'm the same as you - if I'd had to spend four times this amount then I would have - my guys are my responsibility for life - come hell or high water - and I'd borrow to afford the surgery if I had to - but I realise that might not be possible for everyone.Cheers, Westiemum :D

Hi Liza, I feed a modified BARF which was originally supervised by my vet... interestingly I don't feed organs and offal as my guys don't like it!! :D I find its relatively cheap - particularly when compared to the supermarket stuff (which I think looks absolutely revolting anyway and can't bring myself to feeding it to my guys!!). It probably isn't true barf but I've found this works beautifully for us. And when I'm preparing my guys veggies at night, friends think I'm making our dinner!! Basically I feed as raw as possible, a mixture of meat and veggies, and bones and am very strict about treats - mine mainly get raw carrot!!! (Which they love BTW!). I can also recommend the BARF patties for little dogs - like you I'm far too busy to make my own barf mix so I pay for the convenience of the patties - mine get half a pattie each each night so a roll (17.00) lasts two weeks by the time they get at least one fish meal a week (home brand mackeral or sardines). They are packed full of goodies and my guys love them and they are thriving on them. They also get eggs, yoghurt , bones, etc. I think this is a high quality, low cost feeding regime and my guys are thriving. I'm sure you've seen the barf wa site which has piles of places to buy patties - just ring around to find out prices first. Barf WA Here's a copy of two posts from a previous thread this morning which explains what I do... it was in the context of an ACL repair but I hope you find the info helpful. I also worked VERY hard on his weight which has made a world of difference to him. As poodle wrangler said, I cut his food down by half (including his low cal dry food) but for us it didn't work (and no I didn't cheat!). So after some advice from some knowledgeable DOLers I put him on a barf diet, initially heavy on the veggies, a little protein (all human grade) and cut out the carbs and dry food - all under vet supervision. It worked sensationally. It was a bit drastic but I had to be 'cruel to be kind' - he is such a foodie! And he's now very svelte with a waist! A lean mean westie machine!! laugh.gif laugh.gif After he had lost his kgs, I then reintroduced his favourite foods as treats until I worked out how much (portion size) he could have without putting on weight. Hi diet now consists of half a barf pattie or 80-100gs of meat with veggies at night and a snack in the morning (chicken neck). He also gets bones (on those days he doesn't get his pattie or his meat) and carrots for treats regularly and 'naughty' treats occasionally only (he's a fiend around blue cheese!). He dropped 2.5 kilos (about 25% of his body weight!) and has been stable around the 8 kg mark for sometime. I think in my case the weight loss has helped him enormously and is the key to long-term successful management of overweight dogs with ruptured ACLs I'm very careful to keep him on the lean side now (low side of his normal weight range) to keep the pressure off his joints (as a rescue dog who lived in a cage for a long time he has arthritis and poorly developed back leg musculature as well ) - so I'm very very careful with his weight now - and it seems to be working really well - he is happy, healthy and bounces around like a puppy - and the side benefit to all this is that he doesn't have the skin problems he had before - they have completely cleared up - and I think that is because of his diet and the fact he has NO artificial colourings, flavours or preservatives - I'm really careful about that. And the second post which gives some more detail... ...so after lengthy discussions with the vet we decided to drop the carbs and dry food - he told me that even the low cal dry food has 'plenty' of calories in it anyway - and we thought probably too many for a small dog - and health-wise my boy hasn't missed it. So sometimes it might not be the amount you're feeding but it might be the type of food - or both! (I also wonder about whether or not the lack of moisture in dry food is actually good for them given that their natural diet is full of moisture... anyway but that's for another time). Yep I know what you mean about those big eyes begging for more - but I had to be cruel to be kind. I find the veggies (frozen mixed black and gold if I'm in a rush) or whatever is in season and cheap from the markets - carrots, zucchini, broccoli, pumpkin, peas I think are the main ones - two types usually per meal - about a cup full - fills them up without the calories while they're losing weight. I cut the veggies up and find it literally takes a minute and then soften them for 2-3 minutes in the microwave (he has dodgey teeth) - but I basically keep them as raw as possible - then serve with a pattie or a little meat. I find its worth the little extra effort and I genuinely believe that I've saved a small fortune in vet bills... I found it really helpful anyway to do the weight loss thing under vet supervision - even though it was as bad as fronting up to weight watchers laugh.gif rolleyes.gif - and if I'm passing the vet - they are always happy for me to dash in and put my guys on the scales... so I really do keep an eagle eye on their weight. I had a similar problem with my mother with my old cat, who was staying with her - she and an elderly friend living next door were both feeding my cat and killing him with kindness. I read them both the riot act. The solution was that Mum bought the food, and our elderly friend gave him his 'morning tea' (no breakfast). :D He them came home to Mum for dinner . That way he dropped weight, everyone was happy and he wasn't overfed - and he's now an incredibly, demanding, healthy 15 year old. So would it be possible to do something similar with your Mum? You organise the meals and she gives him one meal a day and some carrot or bean treats during the day and you feed him at night... or something similar? Maybe she organises a fish meal a week for him?? And I suggest you show her this thread!!! :D IMO, there is nothing worse than fat, lethargic, inactive dogs!! Hope that helps, Cheers, Westiemum :p

Ditto on the baby gate - the only difference is to keep the dogs out of the cat's laundry (his only place of peace!)!! Cheers Westiemum

Hi Churchie, Yes that was the story with me up to six week mark too and is a good way to go as well if the vet isn't convinced its ruptured - mine wasn't entirely convinced either. What tipped me over the edge and why I opted for surgery at the six week mark was my lovely old boys misery - he was clearly in pain, listless and miserable. So surgery was the most sensible option for us. But I so hope the non-surgical route works for you and Milly. Will you let us know how you get on? Cheers Westiemum

Hi Jans, You're very welcome - I've learnt sooooo much from kind knowledgeable people on this forum its nice to give a bit when I have something to offer... My boy was on a strict diet as well - but it wasn't working - so after lengthy discussions with the vet we decided to drop the carbs and dry food - he told me that even the low cal dry food has 'plenty' of calories in it anyway - and we thought probably too many for a small dog - and health-wise my boy hasn't missed it. So sometimes it might not be the amount you're feeding but it might be the type of food - or both! (I also wonder about whether or not the lack of moisture in dry food is actually good for them given that their natural diet is full of moisture... anyway but that's for another time). Yep I know what you mean about those big eyes begging for more - but I had to be cruel to be kind. I find the veggies (frozen mixed black and gold if I'm in a rush) or whatever is in season and cheap from the markets - carrots, zucchini, broccoli, pumpkin, peas I think are the main ones - two types usually per meal - about a cup full - fills them up without the calories while they're losing weight. I cut the veggies up and find it literally takes a minute and then soften them for 2-3 minutes in the microwave (he has dodgey teeth) - but I basically keep them as raw as possible - then serve with a pattie or a little meat. I find its worth the little extra effort and I genuinely believe that I've saved a small fortune in vet bills. Having said all that I'm not at all familiar with the dietary requirements of a doggie with a liver shunt - so best to check with your vet. I found it really helpful anyway to do the weight loss thing under vet supervision - even though it was as bad as fronting up to weight watchers :laugh: - and if I'm passing the vet - they are always happy for me to dash in and put my guys on the scales... so I really do keep an eagle eye on their weight. As to the cost of surgery - that's what I paid here in Adelaide and included the extra fluids I always ask for but not the post-op meds - I think they were extra. I've heard the cost of ACL surgery can vary wildly and the quality of the surgery doesn't always increase with the increase in cost in my experience - so it pays to get a second opinion and shop around, while being careful about the quality and experience of the surgeon. (Don't forget most vets will allow you to pay off the cost of the surgery over time - and that can be a good way to go too). Personal recommendation is a good way to go IMHO. I didn't have any trouble with finding a good surgeon - my vet is fantastic so I've been really lucky. Maybe some Melbourne DOLers who have had similar surgery might be able to give you some recommendations... anyone?? The bottom line for me is if you are not happy and you're gut is churning with anxiety, then get a second opinion, and then a third if necessary... its too important to get it wrong. So good luck with your little guy. Cheers, Westiemum Ed cos I can't type and spell at the same time!

Hi Jans, Have been exactly where you are with my westie boy. He ruptured his back left ACL about 18 months ago, while he was VERY overweight (and yes I take responsibility for that). He was hopping around and I believe in considerable pain. We treated conservatively for six weeks with anti-inflammatories (they sometimes do come good apparently) with little result. He would seem to get a little better then bang! He would be limping worse than ever. One afternoon he was so miserable that I took him back to the vet and said I thought he needed surgery and he agreed. The vet did a fantastic job - he is like a new dog: cost was 900.00 - worth every cent. His recovery was uneventful - he basically lay around on the lounge for a couple of days with plenty of analgesia (patch if I remember rightly) and a covering course of antibiotics (I think!). He had his op on the Friday and I stayed with him all weekend and then my mother had a couple of dog-sitting days with him - after that he was fine. I also worked VERY hard on his weight which has made a world of difference to him. As poodle wrangler said, I cut his food down by half (including his low cal dry food) but for us it didn't work (and no I didn't cheat!). So after some advice from some knowledgeable DOLers I put him on a barf diet, initially heavy on the veggies, a little protein (all human grade) and cut out the carbs and dry food - all under vet supervision. It worked sensationally. It was a bit drastic but I had to be 'cruel to be kind' - he is such a foodie! And he's now very svelte with a waist! A lean mean westie machine!! :laugh: After he had lost his kgs, I then reintroduced his favourite foods as treats until I worked out how much (portion size) he could have without putting on weight. Hi diet now consists of half a barf pattie or 80-100gs of meat with veggies at night and a snack in the morning (chicken neck). He also gets bones (on those days he doesn't get his pattie or his meat) and carrots for treats regularly and 'naughty' treats occasionally only (he's a fiend around blue cheese!). He dropped 2.5 kilos (about 25% of his body weight!) and has been stable around the 8 kg mark for sometime. I think in my case the weight loss has helped him enormously and is the key to long-term successful management of overweight dogs with ruptured ACLs I'm very careful to keep him on the lean side now (low side of his normal weight range) to keep the pressure off his joints (as a rescue dog who lived in a cage for a long time he has arthritis and poorly developed back leg musculature as well ) - so I'm very very careful with his weight now - and it seems to be working really well - he is happy, healthy and bounces around like a puppy - and the side benefit to all this is that he doesn't have the skin problems he had before - they have completely cleared up - and I think that is because of his diet and the fact he has NO artificial colourings, flavours or preservatives - I'm really careful about that. He appears to me to be pain free these days - in fact sometime later the vet clinically had difficulty working out which leg he repaired without looking at his notes., the surgery worked so well. So surgery is what worked for me. Personally I wouldn't leave him on meds with a limp if it could be avoided - you risk putting undue pressure on the good back leg which puts that leg at risk too - would be disastrous if the second back leg ruptured as well. And yes I think if left unrepaired the risk of arthritis goes up which brings with it its own set of problems and expenses. And yes I would get that half kilo off - in a small dog I think it can make a big difference. Anyway, I hope that helps. Good luck with it all and please let us know how you get on. Cheers Westiemum

I have veggo tendencies but am not a true veggo... and my westies eat plenty of veggies but I would never not feed my guys meat and bones as the primary part of their diet... and they are fit, healthy, excellent weights and bound around like puppies... which isn't half bad for older chooks... Froddo, I strongly suggest your friend rethinks her veggo diet for her dog - it will hurt him and her vet bills are likely to go through the roof. I suggest you refer her to some of the barf sites like this one - as even if she doesn't use the diet or its principles it talks about the importance of approiate diets for dogs . Good Luck. Cheers, Westiemum

Any news??? My westie girl was desexed at 6 and a half, very soon after I got her as a mature westie. She came home that afternoon having had extra IV fluids and a long-acting pain killing injection (or was it a patch?? Can't remember... seeing a theme here??). I don't remember her having anti-biotics but she may have done. She was quiet and groggy for 24 hours, spent all her time on the lounge (her fav place!) and then the following day was bouncing around like a puppy. I genuinely believe the extra IV fluids make an enormous difference to recovery after surgery and so mine always have them. My girl recovered without incident, amazingly well - and I think it has a lot to do with the care and skill of her vet. I think your girl's vomitting is a worry - and I think it can also be related to dehydration (but I might be wrong). I've also often wondered if dehydration in dogs can produce those excruiating headaches in dogs as it does in humans - which may explain why they respond to pain relief??? Not sure. Anyway,I'd be asking the vet for pain killers and a serious check of her hydration and her wound (to check its not infected) - and go elsewhere if they don't take your concerns seriously - your girl's worth it. Hope she's OK and recovering well. Westiemum

Hi rocio, Yep my girl westie's coat is quite curly as well - but I just keep her clipped and don't worry about it - but I don't show either!. So if you want to hand strip I suggest you pm Westielover - she's in Sydney and might be able to suggest someone for you - alternatively does your breeder know anyone? Otherwise ring around the groomers in the yellow pages... Cheers, Westiemum

Hi LA-OC Ditto from me - I just use the shampoo and supplement and wouldn't presume to recommend - Lynda and Archie are the best people to do that. Lucky you being so close and able to actually meet them and take your doggie with you!! Can you let us know how you go?? Alls well here in the Westiemum household - many months later now - doggies in great health, gorgeous coats and vastly reduced itchies - and I won't be using anything else. Cheers, Westiemum :rolleyes:

Hi Aly, Good to hear you are having some success too - all continues very well in the Westiemum household as well. Won't be buying any other shampoo. It doesn't suit everyone but it certainly seems to be helping many doggies on here... Cheers, Westiemum Hi, I agree, Thankyou for starting this post! I have now been using the EPO now for a couple of weeks on Aly and boy has her coat improved. She shines so much and the ITCHIES have gone and her fur has started to grow back where she would rub herself over lawn or carpet or anything that would scratch... I can honestly say I will never go back to another brand of shampoo for her...Can wait for the Vet to see her next Thursday when she goes for her booster needles. Thanks again for the post.. Belinda

Hi Again Aly, Seriously - its the nicest shampoo I've used in years - and much cheaper than than the salon stuff I'd been using for years - I just think of it as a herbal shampoo which i use for me and my beloveds! And if it works well for your hands... Cheers, Westiemum I havent tryed it on my hair. But the skin on my hands was beautiful and soft

Hi Aly, Thanks for that - and yes my hair is the sofest and shiniest its been in years too!! :rofl: Cheers Westiemum

Yep same here hopenfox - since my old boy (8.5 years and arthritic) has been on a barf diet and ACV he is a different boy - pain appears much less and he's much more mobile and less stiff - bounces around like a puppy! Although he still hates stairs of any kind... and I think he always will. ACD is certainly marvellous stuff! Cheers, Westiemum

Hi Blossom, Yes I sometimes think my guys seem to drink very little - and have got a bit concerned during our record heat wave recently - so i started giving them bowls of water with a little stock in it - just enough to change the colour - and they wolfed it down - without concerns about adding too much extra salt to their diet. Set my mind at ease that they were well enough hydrated and gave them a 'treat' at the same time which they loved - particularly during really hot days. A cheap and easy solution - hope it helps. Cheers, Westiemum

Hi Everyone, Haven't been around for a few weeks... just wondering if anyone knows if Lynda and Archie have stock in? I see they were very low a little while ago. Will need to place an order for some EPO shampoo shortly... going through it at a rate of knots with everyone in the family using it! :p Cheers, Westiemum

No Probs GM - its all really good discussion. Unfortunately there isn't a one-size fits all solution for the itches (boy I wishe there was!) - so its important to discuss everything that seems to work so people can decide for themselves. Good luck with Chelsea - glad to hear she's much better. Cheers, Westiemum

Yes ditto Ginger's Mum - good luck on the Malaseb. Very good advice about the dryer. I found even on low my hair dryer appeared too hot so I use a little travel dryer that I paid 10.00 for in one of those cheapie shops - and for the doggies it works brilliantly. Cheers, Westiemum :rolleyes:

CM thats marvellous news about your OH - a great side benefit!! And your dogs look wonderful!! I have the same problem with people 'accusing' me of using whiteneing shampoo on my westies they are both REALLY white - while all it is is the EPO shampoo. And OK I'll 'fess up - I've been using it too and after a couple of weeks I have volume and shine like I haven't had in years! And its soooo much cheaper than the salon stuff!! Cheers, Westiemum