westiemum

Hi Liz, Good to hear your girls are well again. I have a westie girl (9 years ) who over the last few years has had three bouts of haemorrhagic gastroenteritis (HGE) - and its scarey. They literally go downhill before your eyes and usually dehyfdarte very quickly. Like poodlefan I've learnt to recognise it early so I scoop her up and race off to the vet quick smart - no mucking around here either, given it can be fatal very quickly. The last time she had a bout before Christmas she was only there for the day on a drip - didn't even need to overnight her (by the afternoon she was having barking competitions with another SWF and obviously much better so the vet was keen for her to come home! ). Are you sure that what you are describing was HGE? Dogs are usually very sick and miserable with HGE - and apart from the runs yours appeared well. And you're right - no-one seems to know what causes HGE as they haven't been able to isolate a bug or anything, last I read. And in my case its always has happened during summer and a burst of bot weather - so I've wondered whether there is a conncetion there somewhere. So a drip and dose of broad spectrum ABs and a couple of nights at the vet seems to be the standard HGE treatment - unless you pick it early . Not sure I'd be giving Imodium or similar anyway - unless you were travelling with the dog. Diarrhoea in humans and I suspect in dogs is often best left to run its course under vet supervision), yucky as that is, as its happening for a reason (as long as its not accompanied by dehydration of course) Cos like in your case apart for the runny poos, your dogs were fine. Anyway, just some thoughts. Would be interested in what others think. Glad your girls are fine now.

Yep I second Adelaide Pet Dog training. Small group and they'll adapt their classes to your dogs needs. My old westie has had a complete ear ablation 12 months ago on the left. Assumed he had hearing on the right - not so sure now as he appears to be very deaf now. So I'm very careful with him. Good luck and will be very intersted to hear how you get on.

Sorry you're going through this - I've been through it three times - with the same westie! My boys second op (DL (?) procedure - I think cos of his leg which in the next op (tibial wedge - unusual in a small dog)- the surgeon markedly changed the angle of his leg - ouch! (The first was really successful) So yes the 6 week advice is correct. I took a couple of days off work after his ops to dog-sit - and then I comandeered his 'grandmother' to come and dog-sit for a week, during the day while I was at work. Then I put him in the kitchen where he couldn't jump anywhere with his bed. He wasn't crated (he's a puppy farm rescue dog and has spent years in cages so I didn't want to crate him). He spent the time on the lounge, next to one of us on a lead being regularly toiletted - carried outside for the first 5 or 6 days , then he was allowed to walk himself. I also had physio exercises for him from the surgeon and think these helped immensely. It was all very trying - but absolutely worth it in the end - my gorgeous boy appears to be pain free and walking the best he ever has - so good luck and follow your surgeon's advice to the letter.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Staranais. :D

Glad to help ruthless - I know how distressing this can be until you get a diagnosis. Here's a to a video showing a dog with focal epilepsy - substitute a westie and this is exactly what my Andy does. If I'm not with him when it starts he usually comes looking for me - I hear him come up behind me and turn around to a shaking dog. I pick him up and cuddle him until it subsides. My vet says this is probably cerebellar focal epilepsy - but you do really need to discuss it with your vet.

Hi Erny - I completely understand - I too have used the z/d as an elimination diet - but it was not long term. A bit of Maccas for a while never hurts anyone - its the long-term use (dare I say through laziness ) which distresses me... and some of the bones from the back yard are far from fresh! It wouldn't have been that long ago that I would have been whole heartedly and unequivocally "hear hearing" you Westiemum, three cheers, dead right and all of that. I do definitely agree that a whole raw natural diet is the way to go as much as possible. But I must now say that having tried just about everything and having nothing work, I'm glad there is something I can fall back to. At least for the time being. Even if it is a commercial (albeit a science veterinary prescription) line.

Great to hear Annies doing well Mita. I know just how distressing it is to have a dog who usually eats well and then vomits her dinner and turns her nose up at her breaky! My good news is that Sarah is home from the vet and seems to have made a very rapid recovery. Fascinating that US tibbie breeders are thinking along the same lines about kibble and Annie is doing well on the diet you have devised for her - and I see that its all human grade. At the risk of being too pointed, I really think these commercial dry foods have a lot to answer for - no hydration in them and completely processed - and I really have no idea whats in them despite whats written on the pack. The other interesting thing that you do that I do too is know exactly what my dogs are eating - and to me that's the huge advantage of a human grade raw diet - I limit process foods in my own diet and eat as much fresh food as possible and I do the same for my beloved four-leggeds - why should they have any less? And while I'm on a roll... I think tehse processed dog foods (kibble and canned) are for our convenience and not our dogs health - it only takes me 7 minutes at night to get my guys a decent fresh dinner and I think its time well invested - even if it takes a few minutes longer than opening a packet. Rant over... Well done Mita - will be very interested to hear how Annie gets on longer term - and yes sweet potato makes marvellous dog food! . Westie, you have psychic powers. That's exactly what a couple of the really experienced US tibbie breeders told me. They think there are some tibs that don't do well on kibble, even the specialist kind. (When the vets tried Annie on Science Digestion & also Science Allergy & Royal Canin Allergy, the all triggered off a run of very sloppy poos). A Canadian tibbie breeder gave me an example of a tib that suddenly got a run of bowel upsets like this. Returned to her breeder, who used a totally natural diet, the tib then did fine. That's exactly what's happened with Annie. And it fits in with a tip dogmad gave me....sweet potato is good! After trial & error, this is Annie's diet now. And the explosive stomach poos have stopped. Lovely topic for a Sunday 'arvo, but most days I can't tell Annie's poos from Nina Zena's (who's got no tummy troubles at all): Basmati rice Chicken breast fillet, cut a bit small, & v. lightly cooked. Sweet potato!!!!!!! Cooked. When I'm short for time, I keep some jars of baby food....Heinz Golden Garden Vegetables (consists only of sweet potato & pumpkin). Plain Farex baby cereal, mixed with a little water. 98% rice. Contains iron, Vit C & antioxidants. Tuna in springwater & the juice Egg, scrambled, made with water in the microwave Dollop plain yoghurt Good sprinkling of physillium fibre Not all at once, of course, but these are the food choices across days. Soon I want to add back in some chicken necks for teeth exercise. Also a US tibbie breeder remarked that she didn't think there might be enough fat in the diet as it is now. I have to look into that, with the vet. May be just a case of leaving some fat on the chicken fillet. Annie's doing brilliantly on this. For weeks, no meds needed. The vet said the pattern was that she reacted to processed foods & that's what kibble is. Wallabokke, Annie used to have Advance Turkey & Rice. And until last August, she had no bowel upsets at all. Her breeder was able to check the depth & breadth of her lineage, and there was no sign of any rellies with bowel conditions like Inflammatory Bowel Disease (apparently there's some heredity involved). Annie's problem started after I gave her a 'homemade' dog treat I bought at a pet food shop. It had a strange texture...like a small slab of sandpaper. First time ever, she threw up after eating it. Nina Zena had one, too, but had no problem. I threw the rest out. From then on, even Annie's regular Advance kibble brought back to her diet, set her off. Likewise, the 3 specialist kibbles tried by the vet. Blood tests, lab tests, scan, showed nothing. After all this, the vets are scaling down the diagnosis to MAYBE just a Food Intolerance, that seems to have settled around processed food such as kibble. And maybe kicked off by that weird dog treat. The other thing I've done, is to make sure Annie never has to 'hold' when she needs to go to the toot. Tibs are really clean little dogs. I make sure that day and night, she can get out easily & quickly if she needs to go to the toot.

A quick glance at the vets all natural - looks OK if you like feeding commercial... although I still prefer to feed my guys raw ingredients where I know exactly what they are getting - and its all human grade...

No wallbokkie, must admit I haven't... [off to google...] - I usually use the 'Billinghurst' (have I got that name right?) patties and have found them very good.

Hi Mita, Just thinking about kibble generally and inflamed intestines and bowels (as you do on a Sunday afternoon! ). My Sarah, 9 year old westie, is the healthiest happiest girl who 'smiles' all the time - to the point she is known as the 'Goldie Hawn of the westie world! In early 2007 she had her first bout of what we are fairly sure was HGE (Haemorrhagic Gastroenteritis). She had a mild recurrence/relapse 12 months later and appears to have had a her latest bout last night/this morning - she is coming home from the vet late this afternoon or early this evening, usually on a bland diet and antibiotics. The trick with HGE, which can be fatal if left untreated is to catch it early, not muck around and get the dog to the vet quick smart, rehydrate and use some antibiotics and/or steroids - so I'm getting good at picking it early with her - not even overnight in the vet this time ). To the point of my post: I'm beginning to wonder about kibble generally being suitable for these dogs with tummies prone to upset - particularly as they get older and seem to get more sensitive tummies - even the so called specialist kibbles. I'm no vet but I'm beginning to think that they are somehow hard for these dogs to digest and somehow are part of the irritation process, quietly 'grinding away' over time (too fibrous?) until it suddenly goes clinical and you have the intestine/bowel symptoms. Then once they've gone clinical - it takes very little to get them to that point again - hence the rapid recurrence. I would be inclined, if your vet agrees, to try Annie on the Hills canned bland stuff (can't remember what its called) for a week or so to see it that helps settle her tummy while keeping her nutrition up and then gradually try her on some sweet potato, maybe some pumpkin, black and gold frozen mixed veg (not the Coles or the Woolies ones) and then later some kangaroo (lean and hypoallergenic, from the supermarket - not the pet stuff with the pet dye in it) and then other raw foods she might be able tolerate. I've found Sarah does very well on these foods - and after a bout of upset gets her back to normal fairly quickly and easily. Anyway, just some thoughts and theories - let us know how you get on?

Or it could be a form of focal epilepsy... my latest westie rescue has very mild focal epilepsy and as is common with focal epilepsy, it often happens when he is relaxed - he head shakes for between 1 and 6 minutes, isn't incontinent, doesn't lose consciousness or fall over, but goes a bit glassy eyed and shakes his head. Then after the episode he tends to sleep for some hours. I found the first episode really distressing and raced him off to the vet but now I just comfort him and observe the episode. The vet says its focal epilepsy but he is too mild and the seizures are too infrequent to medicate him (Up until early October he had not had a seizure for 11 months which I'd observed). So I just hold him until it stops. I also keep a diary of the dates, duration and what the seizure looked like so I can report accurately to the vet, particularly any variations. I don't even take him to the vet after infrequent episodes (the vet is happy with this) - but if the nature of the seizure appeared to change or they became much more frequent I'd take him to the vet for tests. So I suggest you write down time, date and description, including what he was doing just before the seizure started if possible in a dedicated diary - and if possible take some video of the episode to show the vet (I admit though that I've never managed this). Anyway I hope that helps - let us know how you get on?

In a word... 'No'.

Yep one very happy calendula tea user here - using the intensive series Erny outline helped my itchy westie girl a lot. Hi Tyler23. Yes - leave the tea to air dry on the skin (no rinsing off). As to how often - I was never told so I just did it about 3 times on the first day of getting on to it (as my dog, who was covered by estimated 500+ hives and was threatening secondary skin infection). Next day was VERY noticeably improved, so did it twice and then backed it down to once a day for the next couple of days. After that I only applied it when I thought things were beginning again or getting worse instead of better. I tend to find there is a noticeable improvement inside 24 hours, so it generally (IME) is not a case of using it for an age before you know. I used the Calendula before the antihistamine. It turned out I didn't need to administer antihistamine because the Calendula did the job. It is also good to drink as well .

Thanks Moosey, Yep the vet thinks its behavioural - and things are certainly settling down - lucky for him!! Otherewise ther might have been a westie going FTGH! Any home!!!

Thanks for your help everyone. Went to the vet this morning with the gorgeous problem child and she agrees with you Persephone - she thinks he is hearing something and 'just doing his job'. (He is a very good alert boy!). She feels the relative consistency of it suggests a cat or possum doing its nightly rounds. She examined him very thoroughly and he's perfectly healthy. I described his latest mild focal seizure and she said she thinks its unrelated and is pleased he's only had two since last November (09) and isn't concerned about it. So Im going to try him and my girl in the kitchen overnight and leave the old boy (who's fairly deaf and usually sleeps throught the nightly commotion) with me - and hopefully I'll get at least an uninterrupted nights sleep! That would be good Its been a bit rugged here the last few nights.. Thanks again for your help - appreciated.

Same here - and not huge quantities overall either - its incredible how the poo quantity (and smell!) reduces on barf ( I assume cos there's not a lot of rubbish that isn't absorbed in it). Mine (the dogs that is!) barely smell at all!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions - much appreciated. Didn't happen last night - thank goodness! Pers I thought abou the possum/cat thing - but I felt the timing was too consistent (usually) and I have done the 5 am patrol of the back yard with a torch and found nothing. But if/when it happens again I'll have another look. Thanks Anne, I tend not to crate the puppy farm rescue boys - rightly or wrongly I feel they've been contained for long enough in their past lives as sperm donors. But if I get too desperate, I'll revisit that idea too - thank you And thank you dancinbcs - I didn't know that. Next time it happens will see if he's hot and go from there. Thanks again everyone.

Hi All, Collective DOL wisdom please. Sorry for the long post but I need to explain this carefully: Here's the story: Andy is my unexpected 'foster failure' westie who is about 5.5 years (assuming the age I was given is accurate - and given he's a puppy farm rescue, take it with a good dose of salt!). He has a mild form a focal epilepsey and is what I would call neurologically 'flakey' (He just seems 'soft', neurologically, but nothing really specific). He's a gorgeous little chap - small for the breed - who I have had for about 21 months. I went on holidays on the 15th of September and my mother very kindly moved and and house sat the menagerie. The two puppy farm rescue westie boys only sort of cope while I'm away - Mum said they both 'pined' initially but after a couple of weeks they seemed to be OK. I returned on the 9th of October and Andy had his first mild seizure that I've seen since November last year (almost 12 months). He didn't have any episodes while I was away according to Mum. It was his usual vacant head shaking for around five minutes (no falling down, incontinence or unconciousness). Because it is so mild he is not medicated. If he seizes I just hold him until it stops. I'm guessing this episode on the evening of the 11th of October was related to the stress of the change again with me returning home from holidays - but thats a guess. Before I came home, in the first week of October, Mum said he started this strange overnight behaviour where he suddenly wakes up very startled from what appears to be a deep sleep, scrabbles quickly out of bed and races out the back through the doggie door (this behaviour happens every time), which wakes the whole household. Occasionally he spends time outside (10-15 minutes) but usually he trots straight back in and just goes back to sleep in his bed. And when he does it Sarah (9 year-old westie) then follows him in the race outside. Occasionally Mac my old semi-deaf westie does as well but not as often (he often snores right through these episodes) - so as you can imagine two westies racing through the house on floor boards at around 4.30-5.00 am usually (although its been known to happen as early as 1.30 am) creates a huge commotion and badly disturbs my sleep). I tried sleeping him on my bed and in a large bed with Mac - it didn't help - which made me think its to do with his epilepsey, flakey neurology and/or sleep pattern. Or could it be related to the overnight temperature? (I also checked to see what might be disturbing him outside (long shot) with the torch on a couple of occasions and could find nothing). It seems to happen 4-5 nights out of 7 at the moment. He then usually returns to his bed and sleeps through until morning - although I often have difficulty getting back to sleep! ). I'm really starting to get desperate to find a solution as this disturbing of my sleep can't go on. If I sleep him on the back verandah outside (with good bedding), away from everyone else he disturbs the whole neighbourhood! He hates being separated from me or the other westies. I have him booked into his vet this week to see if she thinks a very small dose of anti-convulsant medication or a sedative might help break the pattern. I'm also going to wash all his bedding this week. But I wondered if any DOLers had had anything similar happen and how you solved it - or can anyone help me with some good guesstimates about what might be going on here? Any, suggestions or advice greatly appreciated! Thanks tons, One bleary eyed Westiemum

Yep ditto - but Elise is very heavily booked usually as well - so I'd get cracking if I were you. BTW its on Fullarton Road at Highgate. Hope that helps.

Gorgeous Jo! It was great to meet your little cutey this morning - I'm starting to really understand the attraction to the Chinese Crested breed. Thanks for all the wonderful food and treats this morning - they are going to love them while I'm away. See you when I get back.

I'm the same as Gretel - found dry food generally pretty disasterous for getting the weight off porky westies. But must confess I generally don't like dry food full stop. So having said that, I fed barf patties (according to weight of the dog then a bit less) and then bulk up with veggies - and the weight fell off. Gretel is right - if they are hungry they'll eat it. I accept no nonsense from my guys - they eat what is put in front of them or go hungry. If they haven't eaten it in five minutes take it away and try again later - they soon get the messsage I maintain their weight well with a combined raw/prey diet. Hoep that helps

Guys I can vouch for what Erny's saying - I started using calendula tea for my itchy allergic westie girl and it worked like a charm - made up the tea and bathed her in it regulary - worked like a charm.

Skitch she's gorgeous! Not sure where you are but I suggest you try Elisa at the Spoilt Dog on Fullarton Road - the first time my last rescue westie was there she was happy for me to stay with him through the whole process as I was worried he'd be completely stressed out. She runs a great service but you'll have to book. Good luck!

Steve, I'm so sorry to hear of your accident and that your little guy didn't make it - but, as you say, at least he died quickly. I ran over my old cat 6 weeks ago but he survived - but I still remember the sinking feeling over that horrible bump as your wheel goes over the animal. Mind you the vet tells me if you are going to run over something run over a cat, not a dog - he's amazed at how they flexible they are relatively and how they often recover. Hugs to you and the family.

Yep agree with Erny. k9, it sounds to me too like seizure activity. I have a five year old (?) rescue westie with mild focal epilepsey. He's very mild and the vet doesn't want to medicate him, although after he has an episode (spaced out, head shaking, no loss of consciousness and no incontinence) he has a big post-ictal (post seizure) sleep. Luckily for me I haven't seen Andy have a seizure since November last year. So for us the seizures appear to be becoming more and more infrequent and mild and I'm hoping he has had his last. Do remember some dogs, like humans will have one or a spate of them and then not have any more - I soo hope this is how it works out for you. Suggest you buy a small diary or keep a dated notebook. Date and time each episode, note in detail what happens including the need to sleep afterwards. Because its really hard for the vet to observe a seizure as they are usually all over by the time you get there, the diary or even a video camera record of one is enormously helpful diagnostically. Hope that helps and