westiemum

Yes it is an odd question. No. if I did I would have said so up front. Clear, transparent.

Good to hear Boronia. That sounds like a purposeful bitch growl to me - and that's the important thing here - Macs growling was aimless and his barking was at nothing. But still wise to keep an eye on it. Apparently 60% of dogs over 10 show at least one sign of CCD. So it appears to me that a lot of owners are missing signs (or putting them down to normal aging which its not) which can be contained if the dog is managed properly and early, instead of becoming incapacitated earlier than needs be. I will keep an eye on Pen Westiemum... so far she is much the same as when I bought her, though I do notice she growls at Daisy if Daisy butts into Pen's space...this may just be a bitch-thing so I keep a really careful eye on them in case it escalates into something more serious...I should have bought another male Westie instead of Daisy, but when I went round to see her, to perhaps buy her, I just had to get her out of there, so handed over my $200 and away I went Next time I take them to the vet I'll ask him to check.

Yes I understand that Crisovar, but I thought she was talking about her Dr B's barf customers... And the fact we both saw it differently tends to support that we all need to be transparent and clear online... particularly when we actually know very little of each other. Anyway, I hope her new business does well.

:p That's Mac all over - but I get the brown, sad-eyed accusing look as well! Mac always needs something to eat, poor starved boy that he is!! BTW what does Grumpy's puffiness look like? Is it possibly a medication side-effect? Just a thought.

Thanks Erny - and you know I respect your opinions and I have no doubt that Andisa is passionate about what we feed our dogs. However my post was more about people being clear when they have vested interests or indeed conflicts of interest which are not disclosed as is the case here. The highlighted part of post 16 is not clear that Andisa has moved to BigDog as a distributor. I assumed she was simply buying the BigDog product after leaving Dr B's as a distributor so felt mislead when she finally confirmed she was a Bigdog distributor, particularly after her earlier posts which clearly favoured the BigDog product and her queries about chemical additions to competing products (evidence?). I don't believe that Andisa was clear to readers who do not know her from a bar of soap. But am happy to leave it at that and happy to agree to disagree. I wish Andisa all the best in her new distributorship. Personally, people will continue to do what they believe is best for their dogs as they should. And their values and ethics will also play a part in that decision. Hi Westiemum .... I know Andisa and in all my contact with her, food and its quality is very high on her agenda.

Thank you for finally being clear about that. Post #16 is not clear that you are actually a Big Dog distributor so you have a vested interest in people buying that one of two competing products. We can now evaluate what you have to say properly. Thank you.

Yes I'm sure you are right Andisa - there usually are two sides to the story - but even in business I think a long term agreement should be honoured. BTW do you have some sort of relationship, business or otherwise with Big Dog? Do you work there? Just curious... WM - there are two sides to every story as we all know - but you may want to check the ethics of the company who makes the new Dr B's Barf product.... http://www.kangaroo-protection-coalition.c...roopetmeat.html - I simply do not trust that they would not use chemicals again. It doesn't sit comfortably with me. As for a verbal agreement only on a "patent" for the product - it is a business - golden rule is get a patent on everything....seems there was more to it. As for Big Dog Pet Foods - like all large companies they manufacture for different businesses. Yes there has been some changes to both products of Barf, no doubt legal reasons were an incentive but certainly not the only reason. ed: sp?

:) The things we do for our dogs!!! ;) I'm sure I could repay the debt of a small developing country with what I've spent on my guys over the past two years - and I'd do it all again in a heart-beat. :D I know what you mean - Mac's in for a dental and the cars in for a service and some minor repairs all on the same day next week - ouch! Thank goodness Mini is a good girl for you. BTW I found this link while I was surfing around earlier tonight - and I think its very good. Hope it helps

Hi Boronia, Good to hear from you and Penny. Hope you don't mind me asking but are you noticing any early behaviour changes? If so, don't delay and get thyself and thy westie to a vet familiar with CCD/doggie dementia . The information I've looked at suggests strongly that catching it early and starting a treatment regime early and not assuming that its part of normal aging (its not) can make a world of difference. Apparently many people leave it until the incontinence stage and by then its usually too late to get much improvement. The signs with Mac are fairly subtle still at this stage and easy to overlook - the intermittent symptoms started late last year (funny purposeless growling mainly) and I wrongly assumed he was just becoming a grumpy westie. Its only been in the last couple of weeks I put the whole thing together and headed off to the vet - and boy am I glad I did. So keep a close eye on her - normal aging is simply slowing down a bit with alertness and interest in life etc still present. In my case occasional purposeless growling and barking and occasional vacant staring where he appeared to not recognise me or the youngest boy westie were not normal signs of aging. Hope that helps and ditto - please let us know how Penny gets on. As we all become more aware of this I think we are all going to need all the support and information we can get.

The story I've been told is this: Dr B's Barf had a trust relationship with the original manufacturer over the Barf recipe. There was a falling out and because he didn't own the recipe patent the company started manufacturing it for themselves to the original recipe. Dr B has now found a new manufacturer, changed the texture and learnt a really tough lesson about patents and business. So I understand Big Dog is the original Barf recipe and Dr B's is a minor variation in texture (and one ingredient?) for legal reasons. Assuming this information is right, I will be staying with Dr Bs. Apart from my dogs are fine on it, I prefer ethical behaviour in the companies I support.

Yep thanks Sheridan - I had found that article - its a good one I think - and thats where I came to the conclusion (as much as you can with this stuff), that there are roughly three appraoches to this - drugs, nutritional supplementation or both. So the vet is going to research the Aktivait as well and we'll go from there. In the meantime we're doing OK on the Hills and Vivitonin. Mac often doesn't respond either but he's genuinely deaf as a door post. So hard to know excatly whats doing what. He's been alert, interactive and following me around as usual since last weekend - so I'm hopeful he will continue to ahve good days. Will be very interested to hear how Grumpy gets on on the Hills, and whether or not you see any improvement.

Yes trying the Hills b/d certainly won't hurt - and something certainly is working here. My vet is usually very circumspect about these sorts of things but she was genuinely really pleased to hear I'd already started the boy on it. Despite Hills mixed reputation, she genuinely believes this is a good food for older dogs like this. She's going to research the Aktivait too which is a neutraceutical (sp?) and see if there is something similar in Australia - so when I find out from her what she thinks I'll let you know. Some people on the net are reporting good results with the Aktivait when they've had less success with the Vivitonon. Quite frankly all this is fairly hit and miss - so its a case of suck it and see. I don't think the bribing every few steps to the bed is a deterioration. I think he's finally worked out he can get more to eat and if he doesn't, he gets to sleep on my bed. It's a win win situation for the cunning little ratbag. I'm certainly going to ask about the Hills, though, because I am concerned about his reaction to things. A car started up the other day and he reacted in the same way he does to thunder.

I've just had a look around and it seems that most people think that if its going to be effective it kicks in in a few days - but will check with the vet. We're continuing to have good days - Mac is alert and with it and I haven't seen any sign of the growling and barking behaviour over the last week which sparked all this. So either the Hills b/d or the Vivitonin or both are helping. At the moment its all good Thanks again everyone - particularly you Sheridan for all your help and making me laugh! . I'm sorry to hear Grumpy seems to be deteriorating - all fingers and paws crossed for you here.

hmn... Sheridan I don't think she did... I'll ask when I'm next there on the 3rd (Mac needs a dental...). Do you know by any chance?

We're a pair of tragics!! :) Me too ;) When I was overseas apparently Andy sat at the front door for the first 4 or 5 days waiting for me. Eventually they all settled but the moment I walked in the door they were all over me as if Mum didn't exist - poor Mum!! I must admit I doubt I'll go away for quite so long again - I miss them too badly and I don't sleep well without the soothing noise of Mac snoring! :D Oh, I wake up if I can't hear Grumpy snoring and Mini sighing in their sleep. :D

Me too When I was overseas apparently Andy sat at the front door for the first 4 or 5 days waiting for me. Eventually they all settled but the moment I walked in the door they were all over me as if Mum didn't exist - poor Mum!! :D I must admit I doubt I'll go away for quite so long again - I miss them too badly and I don't sleep well without the soothing noise of Mac snoring! :D

Dogmad: Dogmad I haven't had any bother at all here in SA - maybe you should come here!! I have three B and B's I go to for the weekend and none of them have baulked at three westies and I know one of the B and Bs has two houses and specifically recommends one of them for bigger dogs. The trick is to hunt around for genuinely dog-friendly places which allow dogs inside. (Dogs outside suggests to me that they are not genuinely dog friendly). When I'm booking for the first time I say I can get references from other B and Bs if they would like. I'm also very careful to describe my guys by name as quiet old dogs and give their ages and describe them as well-behaved which they are - I also mention that Sarah is obedience -trained - in other words play up their 'good' points! I take all their stuff with me (me - one bag and some food -the rest of the car is their gear! :D) , including a couple of sheets to cover the lounge, toilet carefully since there is usually no doggy door, pick-up the poo, leave the place so you would never know they have been there - and at my favourite place I invite the owners who have a gorgeous westie to come and have lunch on one day. They have seen that I look after the place and I have no trouble (even get a discount on the advertised rate these days! ) . So dogmad I think it can be done - even with big dogs - you just have to find the right spot. Hope that helps - and let me know if you would like a doggie sojourn in the beautiful Adelaide Hills! Edited to fix the quote! ETA I do think you need to expect to pay a few extra dollars - but I find most places are soooo generous with the provisions really all you need to take is clothes your toothbrush and your dog stuff - so the extra you spend on rent is compensated for by the food you don't need to buy.

I holiday both with and without the westies - last year I had just over three weeks overseas without them and I think I pined for them worse than they pined for me (at least they had my Mum) I was really quite pathetic - mooning over their pictures most days! For quick breaks I have a couple of marvellous dog-friendly self contained b and bs that I escape to - and we all have such a lovely time. The next one is in May with friends and two other westies - so five in total - six if you count the b and b owners westie too! A beautiful house in the Adelaide Hills - only 35 minutes form home yet it feels like I've really gone away. There are plenty of dog-friendly places on Take a break and Stayz - although I find Take a Break much easier to use. And Bub although self catering and not five star, I take a couple of pre-prepared meals and with the breaky provided, its still pretty easy and relaxing - and the westies just loooove lazing around with me as a captive audience all weekend - so for me its worth it.

Thanks for your post luvsdogs - and I'm so sorry to hear about your bc girl and your laughing vet. Owners are often the best reporters of changes in their dogs as they are with them 24/7. I love working with mine - she is a very good listener and doesn't dismiss my opinions. You're right - things have certainly changed - for the better. Yes I've been told the course of this disease is highly variable - and the stories in this thread support that. The approach I'm going to take is one day at a time, observe him carefully and diarise any incidents and changes so I can report accurately to the vet, and enjoy every good moment I have with him.

Yep or failing that Elisa at the Spoilt Dog on Fullarton Road. She's terrific too and has been marvellous with my old westies.... but she's usually very heavily booked so you need to book ahead...

Well its good and bad news... my wonderful vet believes he is in the early stages of CCD or canine demetia. She was at pains to point out the difference between purposeful growling and barking and non-purposeful or aimless barking and growling as a helpful differentiator. But the good news is that we've caught it early, he should continue at this stage to have more good days than bad days and she was really pleased that I'd started him on the Hills b/d. She is going to research the Aktivait, has started him on the Vivitonin, and has recommended keeping him really well stimulated and doing new things and keeping him well. We decided not to vaccinate him (he's due but low risk) and she talked about three year vaccination schedules She also really liked my diary (I joked that Mac was not the only one who is dementing! I have to write stuff on the westies down or I forget!). But most importantly Mac has had a string of good days since last Friday. So here's hoping we continue to have many more of them. Thanks everyone for your help - you have no idea how much grateful I am for your help, kindness and support. Thanks tons, Westiemum and Mac.

Must admit the cunning little hound has taken to the Hills b/d like there is no tomorrow!!! :D And here I was worried he'd rather starve despite the fact he's a little rotund at the moment!!! (Praying he has a big poo and loses weight tomorrow before we go to the vets tomorrow night!!! ) Friends have suggested its something to do with his deafness (He is as deaf as a door post! You can clap above his head out of sight and there's no response, nor is there one when there is a loud noise while he's sleeping. The only startle response is when you touch him when he's deeply asleep and he cues off the other two westies all the time). So might be something to do with it. Oh well, let's see what the vet says tomorrow night. Prayers please everyone that its his deafness and nothing else... and he poos...

Thanks Anissa, you've pretty much confirmed for me how backward Australian attiudes to dogs are... Now... who's moving to Germany with me?

Yep leighw, I agree with other posters - sudden onset anything in an older dog needs tos be investigated and not just 'monitored' and IMO is worth a second opinion which is what you got with the GME diagnosis. I'm really lucky with my vet - on two occasions she ha gone away to research and come up with some less well known suggestions. So I hope that this is alls well for you and Holly.

I'm really sorry for you woodbyne and so sorry you didn't have longer with her. But what a way to go - peacefully in your sleep in your own warm bed, in the company of other dogs, knowing you were loved and special to someone - no lingering pain and anxiety leading to surgeries, needles and the green dream. I hope that happens to mine, hard as it will be on me. Run free old girl Big hugs woodbyne :D