westiemum

Understand. I'm not a shift worker and I find it difficult too. The only way I manage it is to change my routine (mine was the same as yorus) give Mac his pill the moment I get up in the morning, then I shower and dress etc and feed them just before I leave. I then give him his pill again the moment I walk in the door from work and make them wait a half hour before dinner. Although I do understand how tricky that could be leaving very early or coming home late. The dosing half an hour before food is really difficult for me. I'm a shift worker so the dogs are fed when I get up and when I get home.

Oh he's so beautiful I really love the oldies. Glad its all gone well for you. In know what you mean about worrying as they get older.

Agreed PM - thats me too - I can't go tearing all over the planet for the moment either - and that suits us all here too

Lillysmum, suggest you give the Vivitonin a good whirl - it may take a while (weeks?) to kick in - and I think following the instructions is very important - a good half hour before food. Although Mac is also on the B/D I suspect the Vivitonin is helping quite a lot. I also find that keeping him well stimulated really helps as well. If I have a really busy week and he doesn't get the attention he usually does he somehow doesn't seem as good. So I cart him around with me as much as I can - even to friends places but I'm not having incontinence problems with him.

Staranais its rare I disagree with you but I'm going to this time. If vet students are graduating with little basic surgical experience than agreed that is a problem. However its how they get that experience that is under question - not that they need it. All caring profession new graduates - human and animal - get 'let loose' on people or animals soon after graduation. If there are vets in the vet profession who do not see the supervision of students and the passing along of professional skills to future generations of vets as a life-long professional obligation (I certainly did as a Speechie and trained many students and new graduates in my time) then the veterinary profession has another huge problem. My vet seems to have a constant turn-over of younger vets - some would see that as a problem, I don't - I know he supervises, trains and then they naturally move on - a couple have gone on to specialist e.g vet neurolgy training in Melbourne after a stint as new graduates with him - I hope he is the rule rather than the exception.

This is a really difficult topic. I have to state up front that I think using live healthy animals and then killing them to train vets is wrong, regardless of what their ultimate fate was to be. The ends does not justify the means - and once it does its a slippery slope. Human surgeons gain safe surgical skills through intern training - they don't operate on live patients and then kill them. If you believe that its OK for animals to be operated on and euthanased in this way but not for humans then IMO you shouldn't be a vet. Animals are not disposable and shouldn't be treated and valued in this way - not even for training puposes. The unintended consequence of what this practice teaches vet students, even subconciously is that animals ultimately are disposable. No they are not - ever. Not often I agree with Hugh Wirth but I think he's completely correct this time. It concerns me that the attitude that animals are disposable in the name of teaching or research is prevalent in some vet schools - there is always another solution if you look hard enough. Lastly in the human surgical world, I believe students are now often taught vitually. And the organisation I work for is developing SLEs (Simulated Learning Environments) to train health professionals. It would seem to me that these applications should be used in vet schools as well. I graduated as a Speech Pathologist not having done every last piece of clinical practice - I learnt a great deal under supervision after graduation (although I know I wasn't cutting into people or animals, the principle is still the same). I'm sure vets graduate having not competed the full gamat of procedures and must learn them after graduation and those necessary basic procedures could be learned 'on the job', through 21st century teaching methods such as compueter simulations or through internships.

Yes agreed Sheridan. My old Mac would never cope in a kennel - but its not the kennel per se - its being away from me - as I sadly discovered last year. Whereas some dogs love kennels and do well in them - my guys, who were caged for years are not one of them. Since you missed it, you're taking this thread as a criticism of kennels. It isn't about kennels. It's about people not wanting to leave their old dogs for whatever reason. Those reasons may be stupid to you but I can assure you, they are not to others and it is not your place to say otherwise.

Muttlover thats a really good idea Why didn't I think of that ? I'm looking at buying a new bed next year and will get something lower or might even go back to my poor post divorce days and just put a good new king -sized matress on the floor!

As per usual Souff, I agree with you and others. Old dogs must have a significant other at all times - and even when you think you have that worked it out it still sometimes doesn't work. I went overseas last year for almost four weeks, unbeknownest to me at the time it proved to be about 3 months prior to Macs dementia diagnosis. My mother came and stayed at my house for the whole time I was away to look after the three westies aged 5, 9 and 11. The two oldest ones, despite knowing and loving my mother well (she if often here and is their grandmother after all! :rolleyes:) didn't cope even with their grandmother in constant attendance. Mac and Sarah apparently sat at the front door for days waiting for me to come back - Mum said they appeared 'depressed'. Unknown to us Mac probably had early dementia at this point - his confusion must have been fairly acute So what do I do with an old dog if I have to go away? I change jobs so I don't have to go away - well, at least no more than a night or two - a job where if things deteriorate I might be able to take him into the office with me a couple of days a week and I plan holidays, usually just a few days at a time where they can all come too. I'm off to a beaut B and B in the Adelaide Hills in early June with all three of them and in November I'm off on a wine club weekend away and I said I'd go only if I could bring the dogs - and guess what - they have accomodated all of us by booking one 'pet friendly' house - and it wasn't difficult. And I won't be going away for any more than a day or two without them (and preferably not at all), until after Mac heads over the rainbow bridge. And when that might be is anyones guess. So I have delayed my next trip to my beloved UK indefinitely (was to be July this year). I took them on 6 or so years ago and I will do what is best for them even if it means I need to make choices for them and not for me and work around their needs as people with 2 legged kids would do for them - for me its no different .

Julie no need to contact - my offer to help is still there if needed but I'm thrilled to hear you had more offers of help than needed. you are amazing - I'm still not sure how you have managed to pull this off. Fantastic effort. Fantastic work Julie and Jaxx's Buddy!!!! So shall I assume thsi means all the transport for the dogs is sorted out and you don't need me to collect any from Liberty Dog Rescue? Sorry Snook - That right its all sorted. I got so many offers for help and I was running so Im only just now trying to tie in user names with real names etc to let you all know where we are up to personally.

My older puppy farm rescue westie was castrated at 6.5 years - and it and some training helped reduce his marking behaviour a lot - and he was marking everything in sight! Very quickly he was not marking inside at all. But he still does it outside the property and on walks - the other dog smells seem to be just too strong and he marks every half dozen steps unless i deliberately keep him going. So yes in my experience castration helps a lot - but with training too (same as puppy house training). Hope that helps.

Thanks very much for that info Alyosha. Didn't even know that database existed. I put 'Aktivait' into the product name and nothing came up - so I think its safe to assume is not registered here. But its a good bookmark for future reference. I think to get a trial up and running would probably take more time than Mac's realistically got and would require that manufacturer's cooperation - and as I said to vetrq and dasha, believe me that ain't gonna happen this side of the second coming. So have bookmarked that site and will run anything else I find that might be helpful through it - thanks very much for posting it. EFS

Thanks vetrq and no probs - thanks very much for posting - the only option out of NZ is for someone to bring it in for me - which won't work on an ongoing basis and I won't do that anyway - not the right thing to do. I see from the Vetexpress NZ website that they are actually a subsidiary of Vetplus UK (rather than a licencee) - so after my experience with Vetplus I wouldn't bother even if it could be done - they are likely to be just as unhelpful as their parent company anyway. Thanks for the ginko biloba suggestion - didn't know it might be helpful here (I know some tinnitus suffers find it very helpful)- will pick some up and try him on it and let people know how I go. Vetplus have said they will let me know when Aktivait becomes available in australia - but given their porr customer service track record I'm not holding my breath - so if you hear of its launch I'd be really grateful for a quick post or PM. Thanks again vetrq - appreciate your help and advice.

Yes its easy to jump to conclusions - I did too - and yet know I know the full story I feel sorry for the previous owner and for Molly - but pleased he has done the right thing for his dog. After all she may have injured her leg after running away from him and he may not have known. Glad she fell into the arms of a DOLer who can now find her a forever home.

Hi LM, Big hugs to you. I must say I don't like the sound of your description - the behaviours you describe sadly, sound like canine dementia to me. I'm going through the same with my Mac and here's my thread in health and nutrition which might provide you with some good info and short-cuts. My Mac is on the Hills B/D and Vivitonin - and I give him his pill religiously half and hour before food - and this regime seems to be helping. Do do Deerhound owners questionaire - its really helpful and she's a goldmine of information on this so I suggest you take her up on her offer to talk by PM. Lastly, there is a nutritional supplement called Aktivait manufactured in the UK that you'll find has good reveiws on the net. But its impossible to get it here in Australia as I've just found out the hard way. So don't even bother, apart from the fact they are the rudest company I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. If I can find another solution I'll post it in case it helps anyone else. Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

Exactly. Well said KKDD.

CL1979 I wouldn't be put off by your new puppies deafness (complete or partial) assuming you are willing to put to put the time, energy and training into him - and its so rewarding. My mac is at least partially deaf, acquired 18 months ago - and IMO his behaviour suggests he is almost completely deaf - you can see him cue off the other two westies all the time. I let Mac off the leash at the westie clan gatherings - 15 westies last Sunday - and he did brilliantly and was happy as larry - although I was careful not to let him out of my sight. In my case it was hearing loss or a life of continuing pain - I chose the hearing loss and he's done brilliantly. So not quite the same situation as yours - but I think yours is completely manageable and if you train the puppy well, he will bring you a great deal of joy, brownie points and insight into another really important aspect of dog ownership. Hope that helps.

After a series of progressively less and less helpful emails from Vetplus, the Aktivait manufacturer (boy, IMO are they rude bullies!), a very helpful one from AQIS, and excellent advice from dasha and other DOLers (thanks everyone), I've weighed up the options and decided to just let the Aktivait go - the permit option is impossible without the help of Vetplus and there's no way they will help anyone! They won't even answer straightforward, polite questions. The permit option is also pretty expensive, particularly on an ongoing basis (Mac would need ongoing long-term treatment). So I'll look at the website dasha has supplied and go from there. And in the meantime, if anyone comes across any other treatment possibilities I'd be really grateful if you would post them, since aktivait won't be possible for Mac. Thanks again all - and I hope this thread's been useful even if I've made a rather silly public mistake!

Thanks again - no similar alternative here in Australia that me or my vet can find. The animal naturopath idea is a good one... anyone know of one in Adelaide? Cheers again.

Yep right again on all counts dasha except apparently if you show AQIS there was no 'evil' intent they will sometimes hold the product while you obtain a permit - the nice AQIS man told me that yesterday and a very clever DOLer said so as well. But no guarantees. So I'll wait to hear from AQIS I think to confirm the 'destroy them' option. Pity. But at least I know now for next time and I hope that helps others who might be desperate as I am to help their dogs in any way they can - ultimately Mac is what this has been all about. Thanks everyone for your posts and for being so supportive and non-judgemental about my stupid mistake! I'll just try and be a bit smarter in the enquiries I make beforehand next time!

Thanks Jo - yes it sucks but I completely understand the AQIS position - we are so horrible disease and pest free because of their vigilance - I have no problem with it. The problem I do have is with rude UK companies who don't seem to know the meaning of 'customer service'! (Could you give them a lesson or two??!!). And yes I have been unfailingly polite in my emails in case anyone is wondering. Unless vetr's information that the registration and distributor process for Aktivait is accurate and its further down the track than I think it is, I think Mac is going to miss out. I would need information from the manufacturer for the import permit and I tell you, that's highly unlikely! . They won't help.

Thanks Sheridan - yep good idea if I pursue a permit - but at this stage its looking doubtful. This is great news. Please keep us informed. Westiemum, you should advise AQIS when vetrg comes back with the info!

vetr that is terrific news - but it is at odds with the information on their website which does not suggest they are actively looking for Australian distributors - so I hope the information you have on distributors is more accurate and up-to-date - and its their website which is growing cobwebs. The emails I have from their international sales manager also suggest they haven't even started the product registration process in Australia. Anyway time will tell. Would really really appreciate you posting the latest info you have from your conference and any new Australian distributors. TIA.

Thanks dasha - yes thats completely correct - you've confirmed in one post what I've found out the hard way over the last couple of days I had trouble with ICON, the AQIS database thingo so I've emailed them to see what is involved in getting an import permit and whether or not it will be worth pursuing. I suspect not as if, as you say it requires information from the manufacturer then I have none and buckleys of getting any help from them - they are not being at all helpful. Its taken two emails to get out of him (the international sales manager ) that Akitvait is classed as a' feed additive' and requires registration in Australia. He still won't say whether or not its plant animal or microbial but if it requires registration then it obviously has something in it that AQIS quite rightly would not be happy with. All he's interested in is berrating me for buying Aktivait from a legitimate online company (who they supply!) but he says (quite rightly) shouldn't have supplied the product to me in Australia. This company was really rude when I previously asked about Aktivait dosages for Mac so it never occurred to me to go back there or to enquire about ability to import into Australia - so yes, my mistake. And I'll know next time. So thanks dasha - really appreciate your clear post. Will wait to hear from the AQIS ICON people and go from there.

Hi Sheridan, Yes that's a good Plan B - will see if just providing the manufacturer's information will satisfy them and go from there... Can you get something from the vet to say he would prescribe them if they were available in Australia?