westiemum

Hi All, Just a quick update on my beloved Mac... Have been keeping a diary of Macs purposeless growling and barking episodes so I know I'm fairly accurate... but since Mac started on his herb robert herb tea (although I now give it to him night and morning) his episodes are definitely less freqent and less intense. He's a much more 'with it' westie, seems happier and not so vague so often. He hasn't had a vet check-up for a while ('cos of unexpected work committments I had to cancel last week),so will head back there in the next week or so. So thanks tons to Boronia for getting me started on what I first thought was a bit of hocus pocus witchcraft - you're a DOL gem! I know I've said it before, but there are so few things to help these dogs so we just might be onto something here... How are others going? Best, Mac and Westiemum

Hi Cassie, Here's a copy of the post I just put in your other thread! Cassie I always use Derek or Christine at the Parade Norwood vet clinic - still a bit of a hike from Mt Barker but heaps closer than Lewiston. I also have friends at Mt Barker who are westie fanatics as well and very fussy - They use the Wellington Road Veterinary Surgery (Kirsten Hailstone) for things like vaccinations etc but they use the Parade for major stuff. The Adelaide Hills Animal Hospital in Stirling also has an excellent reputation (Lyn Wells). Hope that helps

Cassie I always use Derek or Christine at the Parade Norwood vet clinic - still a bit of a hike from Mt Barker but heaps closer than Lewiston. I also have friends at Mt Barker who are westie fanatics as well and very fussy - They use the Wellington Road Veterinary Surgery (Kirsten Hailstone) for things like vaccinations etc but they use the Parade for major stuff. The Adelaide Hills Animal Hospital in Stirling also has an excellent reputation (Lyn Wells). Hope that helps.

And the Ikea 4.95 light blue fleecy type blankets - wash like rags and my guys adore them!

Hi PuddleDuck - I can answer for Erny seing she's not around at the moment - I'm a big fan of Erny's calendula tea solution - and yes I make up a stock pot full of normal tea strength (maybe a bit stronger - it goes really yellow), let it cool and then bathe my itchy westie girl in it - do this daily for a week and then every second day for a week then twice a week then once a week - and I'll be surprised if you don't see a big difference. Hope it helps. Erny, do you make up a huge amount of tea and pour it over them? I'm getting a mental picture of many kettles..... ;)

Teebs big hugs - scary situation. I have a mildly epileptic westie and one with early canine dementia. And at the moment the best thing you can do is start a diary for your parents and tell them to keep it current for the vet and log all 'episodes' - date, time, duration and description = no matter how mild. That way the vet can get a good idea if the 'episodes' are increasing in frequency and severity or changing in any other way. As apart from a short video, these diary entries are really helpful in logging the course of the disease, particularly as these episodes are usually long over by the time you get the dog to the vet. Its amazing how inaccurate memory can be for this sort of stuff. I have a diary which I bought cheaply at the beginning of the year where I log Mac's episodes of canine dementia and Andys focal seizures. (also anythign else significant like dietary changes etc). I take it to the vet with me each visit and she finds it very helpful. Its also very heartening for me to see that neither of them appear to be getting worse. Hope it helps.

Hi becks - sorry mad week at work and haven't logged on... At Boronia's suggestion and after her research, a couple of us are trying Herb Robert with our dogs with canine dementia. I seem to be having quite some success with my Mac. You can buy it here Hope that helps

Hi All, Yep I've been giving Mac his 'herbal tea' each morning now for 19 days - and only one episode of the aimless growling since and that was last night - so I'm thrilled. I put some water in his bowl along with 1/2 teaspoon of the dried herb before I go to bed and steep it overnight. I then add his Hills b/d to his 'herbal tea' in the morning and give him the whole mixture for breakfast. He hasn't left a drop yet! As I've said before there is so little to help these dogs so I thought it was worth a go - and I'm thrilled with the results. He's a much happier westie! Hope that helps.

OK. Herbs for Dogs (and Cats!) thread started in the Health and Nutrition Forum for anyone who is interested.

Hi All, This thread is not so much about chit chat but ad hoc information from DOLers on herbs that they've found helpful with their dogs. So lets keep the chit chat to a minimum to make it easy for people to find the information they need and easy for people to post: Herb name: Condition used for: How used: Observed changes: Other information: Acknowledgements: Herb name: Herb Robert Condition used for: Canine dementia/canine cognitive dysfunction (CCD) How used:1/2 teaspoon of the dried herb well steeped in water once per day or added to wet food. Observed changes:No aimless growling and barking since commencing on the 'herbal tea'. Day 16 today. Definitely much brighter and 'with it'. Other information: Very minimal side effects found on the net. Well tolerated by my old westie. Also used in human cancer treatment and as a general preventative for well-being. Herb Robert is a member of the geranium family, and is a strong antioxidant and blood oxygenator. Active ingredients have apparently been isolated. Source of the mineral 'germanium'. Used by the Romani people medicinally for centuries. Acknowledgments: Thanks tons to Boronia for putting me onto Herb Robert and to Isabell Shipard who gave Boronia the information to pass on. Hope thats made it easy to cut and paste the headings so poeple can post their information which might help someone else.

Yep me too bianca - this has been a bit of an eye opener for me. Will do.

Good thoughts LL. Thanks. I say go for it. Bugger the people who 'poo-poo' it. They shouldn't even be reading if they aren't interested. Just tell the people who go on and argue with you etc not to come onto the thread if they have nothing USEFUL to say.

Mita, dogmad, (and anyone else!) I'm thinking of starting a herb thread in the Health and Nutrition forum. I don't think there has been much discussion of them and this last experience with Mac has taught me to be more open-minded about them. I know some people will poo-poo them, and I was certainly a sceptic, but I'm beginning to believe there is much benefit in their sensible use. I ordered a 'herbs for dogs and cats book' last night so will be really interesting to see what it says when it arrives. I'm beginning to think we should discuss herbs more openly so people can make up their own minds. A number of others have popped up who have posted or pm'd who are desperate to help their dogs who seem at the end of the treatment line. Bit like you dogmad. And I would be very interested to hear more about your chinese herbs. So it might help others who haven't considered them - particularly those with dogs with dementia. Thoughts?

Thanks for your post Leelaa17 - yes depite our arguments and different points of view people are always very kind and generous on this board when others need help of any kind - this really is the best community - full of wonderful people. Yes look given there is so little around for these dementing dogs and I gather its easily available and cheap compared with other options, I think its worth a try. And it also seems to be relatively side effect free according to the net. So good luck and please will you post and let us know how you get on?

TTJ thanks for the post and I'm really sorry to hear you are having such dementia trouble with your JRTx. There are two things I suggest - pm deerhoundowner, do her questionaire, and then talk with her privately about the results - she is a gem who is a wealth of information on canine dementia. Secondly, I wasn't being deliberately mysterious about Mac's herbs - simply a little nervous about recommending something which I can't be completely sure is the source of his improvement. But... the truth is he is much better since starting on his 'herbal tea' in the mornings and I'm highly suspicious that it is the herbs that are doing it (One thing I am is a good observer of my dogs and changes in their behaviour - comes from years of Speech Pathology practice where I had to observe small detailed behaviour changes). Mac is on 1/2 a teaspoon of dried 'Herb Robert' per day, a geranium plant derivative which I understand has very potent antioxidant and blood oxengenation properties. The Romani people (previously called 'gypsies') have apparently used it successfully for eons. There is also annecdotal evidence that it can be an effective cancer treatment. So I make up Mac's 'tea' in his bowl by steeping 1/2 a teaspoon of the dried herb in water overnight, before going to bed and then add his breakfast (Hills b/d) to it in the morning. And the truth is he does seem much better over the last fortnight. So it might be worth trying with your little man. Dogmad also mentioned that she had used Chinese herbs with good success with a dog of hers with dementia. The truth is I was a bit sceptical about the use of herbs but given there is soooo little available to help these dementia dogs I decided it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. And I don't think I'm imaginging it but I do think its helping quite a lot. And I'm sooo grateful to the kind DOLer who set me on this path. Mac's definitely brighter. The longer he goes on without episodes of aimless barking and growling the more confident I will become that its the herb robert which is helping. So far so good. But without definitive trials its hard to generalise the ad hoc results I seem to be seeing with Mac. So in the absence of anything else helpful, as long as you recognise the effects might be different in different dogs, then you could certainly give it a try. I'd be really interested to hear how you get on. Hope that helps. Best of luck.

And just reporting in... its two weeks today since Mac started on his morning 'herbal tea' and I've had a week off this week prior to starting a new job next week so much more time to observe him - and not one aimless barking or growling incident. He's simply behaving like a 'normal' hearing impaired old man... amazing

BMAK I personally don't bother with kibble if feeding barf although I know others do - I think its expensive and nowhere near as good nutrition but thats just my opinion. As to your recipe, its fine but an awful lot of chopping with a poor processor. If I were you, I'd save as quickly as possible for a decent processor and save yourself a heap of time and effort. As to amounts - it depends on how big your dog is as to how much to feed - I feed my westies around 100gms each (I think!). So a kg of meat and then veg added will last three small dogs 4-5 days. Hope that helps.

Hi Julie, Thanks for the suggestion - but which category? The 'service' one?

Have a read of Freetoroam's thread from last week here - and yes I do find it cheaper once you've bought the flaxseed oil, vitamin powder and kelp powder. And its not hard with a good food processor.

Thanks for your replies guys - I just wanted her to know how much I appreciate her help and kindness. With so little around that seems to really help dogs with canine dementia, its really worth trying some 'out of left field' remedies - and this seems to be working.

Boy there are some really special people on this board... they are generous in their replies, the time they spend crafting them on occasions and generous with their time and often their money. I never take for granted what a special community this is. I won't name her but there's someone really special on this board - she sent me her latest pm today - who has been the most incredible support with Mac and his canine dementia over the last few weeks. She knows who she is. She went to the trouble of getting some information for me and then passed it on, sent me some dried herbs for Mac, then a week or so later sent me some live plants so I can have a constant supply for him... and wouldn't even take the postage. She's also sent further links of information as she finds them... I'm blown away by such kindness. And incredibly, Mac hasn't had an aimless growling or barking episode since he started on his morning 'herbal cup of tea' almost a fortnight a go. And he sees brighter. Coincidence? Maybe - but I prefer to think a kind DOLer who we've never met except online, has made a real difference to an old confused westie on the other side of the country. Bless you.

Yes, once you buy the kelp powder, vitamin B and flaxseed oil, which all last for ages, I find its a really cheap mix - and best of all my babies love it!! do you find doing that saves more money then buying the actual BARF diet from the pet stores ?

Firstly, big hugs as I too have been there and done that - I didn't have a job at the time, a husband who was sleeping with my best friend and had two cats - and no way was I giving them up - I'd live on lentils and rice and hell would freeze over before that happened. But I did it differently. I finally moved across the country for work, found pet friendly accomodation, retrieved my cats from relatives, worked an over full-time job, they entertained themselves during the day with the retired neighbours, came home at night and we all genuinely lived happily ever after. But as another poster has said, I'm sensing that you have decided to give up your dogs. So the best thing for them is to go with your husband if at all possible, unless you can rearrange your lifestyle, even temporarily to accomodate them. After that its rehoming. I don't wish to sound harsh but killing them should not be an option for a well-informed DOLer. And you certainly are that. And as someone else said without wanting to be too personal, mediation can be very useful at this point in developing solutions. We used a psychologist rather than a solicitor to mediate our settlement, and apart from the cost savings it was a much less hurtful way of doing it for both of us. (Once we agreed we then had a solicitor write it up, another solicitor check it and then it was lodged with the family court). I really think this is your starting point with a possible aim of you finding a way to help your husband to keep the dogs. Assuming they were a joint responsibility, I don't think its any different to kids - the 'non-custodial' parent should still help out. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you all.

Here's the recipe I use - its for a Thermomix but will give you a good idea: Ingredients: 1/2 kg vegetables (carrots, celery, spinach, cauli, broccoli etc), roughly chopped 1/2kg lean meat or mince (beef, chicken, lamb, pork, kangaroo etc). ('Roo and pork are good for dogs with allergies). 1/8 lambs fry (or similar amount of other offal), roughly chopped 1/4 small tub plain, low fat yogurt 1-2 free range eggs (I use 2) 2 cloves garlic 1.5 dspns flax seed oil 1/2 tspn of vitamin B powder Up to 2 tspns kelp powder (I use 2) Any other healthy food scraps eg small amounts of cooked veggies, rice, pasta cottage cheese etc. Method: If mincing your own meat, mince it first for 8-15 seconds on speed 7 and set aside. Chop veggies, garlic and offal in TMX for 6-8 seconds on speed 4 or until it looks like fine coleslaw. Veggie mix should be well chopped, fine enough to make into patties, but not mush. Add mince and all other ingredients and mix on reverse + soft speed for 8 - 10 seconds until well combined. Shape into patties and freeze or freeze in serving size portions in plastic bags. Thaw as required.

I second the Snugglesafe - and thats a really good price. They are safe, very effective and last well. May seem expensive but you'll be very pleased with them - I have three - one for each westie and they love them - particularly since the weather has turned very cold here.