Shazzapug

Unfortunately there isnt a Pekingese in Breeds 101 and there isnt a breed thread in the breed sub forums. :D

Yay... :D

Can I just mention Uterine Inertia....something that can happen in my breed when the bitch is huge and so stretched the uterus cant contract....signs of this with Pugs is panting, digging, sleeping....but not progressing. I would ring and chat to the vet.

Is that because of her personality/temp or simply as a new owner of the breed there is too much to learn and understand about a LGD? It's a combination of things - yes, she has a dominant type character, very independent, she is difficult to contain, she is always looking to extend her territory, guards her territory ferociously and is DA & HA within that territory. She's serious, large & fast and gives little to no warning. Managing her so she is not a danger to others has been challenging. She was my first working LGD (she's almost 8 now & retired to house dog) and even after owning, showing & breeding dogs for 20 odd years, she was still a huge learning curve for me - I was lucky to have good support & advice from other more experienced LGD owners. She's taught me a lot & I wouldn't swap her for the world but it's been a long hard road. Wow, thanks for the explanation....what does DA & HA mean. On going support and advice from the breeder sounds the key to the management of my future LGD....I had no idea what a huge responsibility it was going to be.

I too admired them from afar....and then I had to have one. Toby is 7 mths now, here are some baby pics. I love the brushing, but it is so hard keeping him clean with a house full of pug hair. Cos their bellies are practically on the ground it wears everything. But they are such characters....all he does is run flat out around the house and do skids on the floor boards. Our Pugs are in ya face, and Toby is in their face lol....he would run full on up to any dog and bark in their face. We love him to bits.

These same thoughts were going thru my head waiting for a flight yesterday from Townsville...flat face all day in a plane. Sorry for your loss. You need to give the airline a copy of the autopsy, run out of air sounds like someone turned the wrong switch...can they turn the air off in the cargo hold or where ever it is they keep the dogs?

This has always confused me.... why do some people have LSDs to protect alpaca flocks, when alpacas themselves are often suggested as her protectors? :D There are sheep farmers around here that have Alpacas as herd protectors but really all they can keep away are the foxes.

Is that because of her personality/temp or simply as a new owner of the breed there is too much to learn and understand about a LGD?

:D I was going to suggest you contact Steve! I didnt know Steve had them....have Corgis on the brain.

Thanks for the links...

eventually got to it http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry4945087 Breeds you could consider: Maremma Anatolian/Kangal Central Asian Central Asians are the most effective LGD at dealing with feral dogs, but the total package is not for everyone. What breed you are partial to, will depend on the breeds general working style in lieu of your property setup and expectations of the dog. Thankyou for all your replys. We have 17 cattle and a dozen goats as well as the sheep....so enough to keep a LGD busy. I am leaning towards the Central Asians, but that is purely looking at the different breeds and what appeals to me. I never knew they were that capable against intruding dogs. I think I have a lot to learn about them, but it is definately something we have to do as this is the 2nd attack on our sheep in the 7 years we have been here. Cheers.

When I was first looking for a Pug to buy 10 yrs ago I rang every breeder in the Dogzonline breeders directory, all 80 odd back then.....now I would like some info on a Guard dog for Livestock and there are only 4 breeders listed. The breed section dont seem to get many posting so thought I would post here and see if any owners or breeders frequent here more. Our sheep were mauled early hrs sunday morning and we had to put 3 down and buddy was dead, we are hoping he died quickly as his injuries were sickening. The dogs were strangers to our area, none of us have ever seen them before.... and it highlights how vulnerable sheep are to dog attack. The worst is it all happened without waking any of us. So my questions are if we had a Livestock dog is part of their training or instinct to alert the humans, sending out the alarm so to speak? Any advice or help in which direction to go would be muchly appreciated.

I might be narrow minded but I am not naive enough to think that this has not and is not already happening...good grief!! Firstly I never called you narrow minded. Secondly at what point did I say I don't already think this is happening... that was my reason for stating ethical registered breeders in my posts. I agree with you that there are already dodgy breeders, I'm just saying that the people that are dodgy and not registered will just become registered. why on earth would they be that stupid? become registered and your traceable and the wolf pack of ethical's will be running rspca's lines hot putting in complaintsto get rid of em, at the very least embarrass the daylights out of em. been happening for years to those who have thought they were ethical discover they had annoyed someone in the club and discover the uniform at the door, so its sure going to happen to anyone else silly enough to join and be noticed surely? I know my family never bought a purebred dog ever, all came from petshops and all loved to bits all their lives. none of the cattledogs my dad had ever had a pedigree come with it, nor the german shepherds or my brothers border collie, it was only after i had my first job and wanted a registered pup that once came home with cc papers. n that was some 40 or more years ago now. AND im the only one stupid enough to have pedigree. n i come from a VERY BIG family. everyone else gets em from where? pet shops or signs on the edge of the road or word of mouth and not a pedigee in sight interesting that figure isnt it. 600,000 dogs a year n only 60,000 of em came from a registered breeder yet whos the bunnies being shot at? n whos the pretty stupid bunnies asking for more laws to shut down the breeders of the other 540,000 and getting eliminated instead? ethical they may think they are but smart enough to realise the law classes all breeders as unethical. n whos the only tracable ones? regd breeders. who show? registered breeders, who is facing 42 charges for showing a debarked doggie? only a registered breeder can end up in that net. n when will they finally figure the hunt includes if not totaly targets who? not too bright are they the ethicals after all We always had purebred labs growing up, I dont know where they came from but it wasnt a pet shop. Some of us were bought up a little different I guess. There isnt a choice to be unnethical or immoral, a breeder has to have integrity and be prepared to stand behind the dogs they breed.

I might be narrow minded but I am not naive enough to think that this has not and is not already happening...good grief!! Firstly I never called you narrow minded. Secondly at what point did I say I don't already think this is happening... that was my reason for stating ethical registered breeders in my posts. I agree with you that there are already dodgy breeders, I'm just saying that the people that are dodgy and not registered will just become registered. Cool ☻....... this is the dilema of the puppy buyer, in my breed anyway.

I want to see the council to take more responsibility. We pay rego fees each year so use some of that to put the current laws into effect. I don't think the RSPCA should have the market on animal stuff, the council needs to step up to the plate and be actively involved in these issues. Yep so do I but I do think there is a difference between policing laws which are about compliance for some mickey mouse stuff - like where my dog sleeps and how many I can have in a house yard etc and the real stuff that impacts like not feeding them or throwing them against the fence etc too. I dont think its up to a council or a police officer or the RSPCA to tell me when I have to vaccinate my dog and make it a crimminal offence if I dont as is the case in NSW and Victoria. i dont think mandatory laws should dictate that my dogs should be kept on hard impervious floors when they have evolved to run on dirt and dig and sunbake either. When you get laws and the RSPCA policing them which turns an old lady into a crimminal because she took a dog to a dog show which was debarked by a licenced and very competent vet because she didnt ask some stranger first its time to say we have truly gone way too far. I guess that is where it gets hard, different state laws mean that it becomes harder for regi breeders in some areas. Yes I agree with this. It's the - I want a puppy and I want it now - attitude that keeps the sausage factories and pet shop sales in business. Buyer behaviour and community expectations and behaviour have been successfully altered for centuries with education and marketing campaigns. Think of major gov campaigns that you know of like the Grim Reaper. It actually educated and changed social behaviour. There are a million examples of how this has worked but that is the main one that comes to mind. Yes you can change these things, but lets be honest about the chances of this happen when relating it to dogs. How many purebred puppies were born through ethical registered breeders last year and how many dogs were actually bought? I don't know the answer to this question, but I'm going to bet that registered pups were a minority number. There simply aren't enough registered breeders to supply the market. All that will happen is dodgy people will become registered and start breeding poor quality purebreds and then you have to try and get people to figure out who is an ethical breeder and who isn't, because as has been stated on here before it is very hard for the canine orgs to boot registered breeders out due to trade laws. I understand how education campaigns reduce things that require behaviour change in society, but you are suggesting changing a society behaviour where the industry will be unable to meet the demand and so the behaviour change won't stick for the majority. I might be narrow minded but I am not naive enough to think that this has not and is not already happening...good grief!!

No, hang on, this is where I got it from, this is what you said.

What a narrow minded view This is about animal welfare, including the health & responsibility for the puppies that are put out there. As a buyer I would prefer my puppy to come from someone who health tests, considers the genetics before breeding, provides advice & on going support if needed, raises their puppies well in good conditions no matter how many dogs they have or if they show. If its a show breeder who only breeds for themselves & to show, sells off the rest & keeps them in crap conditions I don't care if they aren't a puppy farm. I would not want a pup from them. Lucky the choice is not always from the 2 extremes. If someone has 2 litters a month, every month & over breeds the bitches obviously there is cause for concern, no matter what you class them as. Narrow minded or not that is my opinion and view.....my Pugs are my life and I love them all and I know exactly where every one of my pet puppies are and I get them returning for brothers and sisters for their babies. I am lucky to have half a dozen litters a year if all goes well and I am lucky when I get 4-5 in a litter, so far this year 3 singletons....I breed to improve my lines and the puppies I sell are the best darn Pet Pugs in the park...just go down to Pugwood and see. When the love and emotion and caring is not there and replaced by money driven breeding to me it then turns into Puppy farming.

Great statement....I agree. Yes, it is a great statement and I totally agree with it in essense....however it does bother me, (and I'm sure this bothers all breeders) that this also means that the greater majority of YOUR breed is out there in the community having been bred by BYB, Puppy Millers and those that do no health checks and do nothing to improve the breed or produce a quality representation of YOUR breed. But I'm not really sure if anything can be done about this under the current climate. What are you talking about??? My breed only has 3-5 puppies of which I keep at least 2 to run on so maybe 3 are sold as pets if lucky. How can you say this when you bred the whole litter for pets....how many were in the litter???? I did not breed the whole litter for pets. My hope was to have something good enough to keep, but that is not always the case is it? I have retained a bitch that I have high hopes for but cannot keep all five bitches. My hopes for the remaining pups in the litter was for them to also be sound healthy puppies that would be placed in Pet homes. With a popular breed like Cavaliers there is a huge BYB market and they are always seen in Pet Shop Windows, usually poor examples of the breed to boot. THAT is what I am talking about! Therefore, I don't see what your problem is with producing a litter of pups, from which I intended to keep one bitch, and any other pups I hoped to be healthy, quality puppies for the general Public to own. This just sounds like a misunderstanding. You said originally that you bred the litter just for pets, but later clarified that with your last post above. And I understand that you would rather see the general public with great examples of the breed rather than the substandard BYB pups that are often seen in pet shops etc. I think we'd all like to see that! Yes, The Ark, exactly. :D When I said I had bred this litter for "Pets Only" I meant that I had no intention of selling any to a breeder unless I knew them or someone whose opinion I respected "vouched" for them. I'm not even sure if the one I've kept is ever going to be "more than a pet" but she will be a pet I'm proud of, as I hope is the case with her sisters. :rolleyes: Sorry was going on your opening post.

Let me get your definition of Puppy Farmer right Steve.....your not interested in the amount of puppies bred by someone as long as all dogs concerned are being appropriately looked after? And if someone keeps only a few dogs but they dont look after them to the required standard they are Puppy farmers? IMHO a puppy farmer is a breeder that only sells to the Pet Market and only ever keeps bitches from litters to replenish their over bred breeding bitches, and has more than 2 litters a month.....these breeders would also earn an income of in excess of 50 grand a year and would not be declaring any of it to the tax dept of course. They also might keep impeccable conditions in their homes and kennels which in your view makes them not puppy farmers Steve. There are a hundred times more Puppy farmers out there than the horrible concentration camps we have seen recently in PF raids.

Great statement....I agree. Yes, it is a great statement and I totally agree with it in essense....however it does bother me, (and I'm sure this bothers all breeders) that this also means that the greater majority of YOUR breed is out there in the community having been bred by BYB, Puppy Millers and those that do no health checks and do nothing to improve the breed or produce a quality representation of YOUR breed. But I'm not really sure if anything can be done about this under the current climate. What are you talking about??? My breed only has 3-5 puppies of which I keep at least 2 to run on so maybe 3 are sold as pets if lucky. How can you say this when you bred the whole litter for pets....how many were in the litter????

So you think that if someone breeds more than - how many- they should come under the notice of their state canine association and be treated as potentially people who keep their dogs in sub standard conditions? What happens to the ones who keep their dogs in poor conditions but only breed now and then, or those who have 3 or 4 different prefixes , or those who breed one litter of purebreds to 10 litters of cross breds? What is this magic number which demonstrates a breeder is breeding commercially rather than breeding more often in order to identify or breed out an issue in the breed? Dont we have to start somewhere???? You ask for discussions and yet are so quick to squash suggestions, hey I can sit in my own little safe world or I can chose to join y'll and try and find solutions...I have had a bleeping bad day...4 of my sheep had to be shot this morning cos they were literally mauled within an inch of their life by bloody cross breds that no matter what happens to puppy farmers there will always be mongrels to maul sheep. I thought this was about puppy farms so yes if a reg breeder is registering more than 1 litter a month sorry but I consider that puppy farming....either that or they are making a shit load of money and not breeding for the betterment of the breed.

Vets are there to maintain the health and welfare of the animals. If they are required to check all chips, then report any dog that is not chipped, the owners of unchipped dogs will not seek medical aid for that animal. The responsibility of the vet is to the animal, not to enforce legislation. Having said that I am in favour of compulsory chipping- if all cattle and horses can be chipped in the uk then i'm sure all dogs can be. Why do we chip then if not to help protect our dogs and make it easier for them to find their way home if stolen or lost?? Are we to carry scanners in our hip pockets....you tell me where else does a dog get scanned other than if they end up in the pound. Also a vet is making money, big money implanting them and yet not required to scan....doesnt make sense.

Great statement....I agree.

Microchipping wont work until all vets scan and check details on every dog that walks thru their doors.

Puppy farmers hiding behind their Dogs Vic or what ever state society membership would be registering their puppies, Yes....when a breeder is registering a litter every month or 2 or 3 a month, or goes over what ever number one would consider a large amount of puppies one would consider them a puppy farmer, why cant then things be in place to visit this breeder....and go from there.? The state societys have all the records why cant they use for the good of the dogs rather than just money grabbing from members.