Ah Ngau

If you are a researcher, investigating this subject isn't going to get you the brightest career path. There are a whole lot of other very interesting things you can do which are easier to get grants. Anyway, there are at least 2 related papers:- 1. Lonsdale T. [1995], Periodontal disease and leucopenia, Journal of Small Animal Practice 36, 542-546 2. Glasgow A. et al., Progress Report, Role of Diet in the Health of the Feline Intestinal Tract and in Inflammatory Bowel Disease, http://www.cfa.org/articles/health/role-of-diet.html The first one is very important politically, it was first accepted to be published, then got withdrawn. Things got ugly and a lobby group was formed by a few Aussie vets as a result. The whole thing spilled to the internet and the rest is now history. However, the science alone is on very shaky ground because of the resources limit. The sample size is small and there is no control group. A lot of further work needs to be done. The second paper is the famous "taurine paper". It almost put raw diet firmly on scientific ground. But the taurine issue crowded out the positive result of raw diet. Now the paper is mostly used to disapprove BARF or raw diet. Very few vets is brave enough to tell a client with an IBD cat to feed raw with a little taurine supplement.

Interesting... Care to share the reason why it's changed from fresh food to processed food?

What does the recommendation based on, apart from a huge profit margin?

From Linus Pauling Institute (http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/): "Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) is available in many forms, but there is little scientific evidence that any one form is better absorbed or more effective than another. Natural vs. synthetic vitamin C Natural and synthetic L-ascorbic acid are chemically identical and there are no known differences in their biological activities or bioavailability" AND "Ascorbate and vitamin C metabolites One such supplement (Ester-C®) contains mainly calcium ascorbate, but also contains small amounts of the vitamin C metabolites dehydroascorbate (oxidized ascorbic acid), calcium threonate, and trace levels of xylonate and lyxonate. Although the metabolites are supposed to increase the bioavailability of vitamin C, the only published study in humans found no difference between Ester-C® and commercially available ascorbic acid tablets with respect to the absorption and urinary excretion of vitamin C" I don't think you can get BETTER vitamin C than the generic ascorbic acid tablets.

Okay, I see what you mean. In this case, you are defining a positive reinforcement as a punishment. AND ... See how the behaviour was instigated by a punisher though....to you driving in heavy traffic is a bad thing....something that you want to avoid, so you changed your behaviour so that you could avoid it. In this instance the move is from +P > -R. In this case, you are defining a negative reinforcement as a punishment too. You are right to say that all conditioning are punishments because in essence, you are defining ALL four quadrants of operant conditioning as punishments (i.e. drive of uncomfortable desires, actual punishments, threats to punish and denial of good things). Logic dictates that you are right by definition and I kinda suspect that you are a "glass half empty" person.

Intuitively, we associate something bad as punishment but in operant conditioning, a punisher is something that decreases a behavior. A positive punishment is something bad happens. A negative punishment is something good gets taken away. Driving in heavy traffic is a bad thing. One morning, I left a bit earlier than usual and didn't run into traffic jam. The next morning, I left earlier again to avoid heavy traffic. My behavior of leaving earlier is strengthen by the consequence of avoiding heavy traffic. In this example, there is no punishment in the sense of operant conditioning. My behavior was negatively reinforced. Edited for spelling.

Hi all, newbie dog owner here but I am very interested in operant conditioning. I think the statement "All learning/behavioral change begins with punishment, positive or negative" only presents half of the equation. Punishment, be it +ve or -ve, only decrease the probability of a behavior from occurring. We can extinguish an establish behavior, say counter surfing or pulling on leash, with punishment. But then again, what if we want the dog to sit in front of the counter to wait patiently for food, or we want the dog to heel? Punishment can never give you those because it can't INCREASE the probability of a behavior. "People don't change until the pain of not changing becomes greater than the pain of change" and "People do change if the gain of changing becomes greater than the gain of not changing" ETA: My wife always says that men are like dogs. I think she is right, at least in operant conditioning.

Agree with The Spotted Devil, it is all about the quality and quantity of the feed. Both of my dogs grew up on BARF. The golden retriever grew at a normal rate because I watched his weight gain closely to prevent any hip problem. But for my sheltie, I was a little lax in the feeding department. We had a get together with his litter mates when he was 8 months old. He stood like a little giant among his dry food fed siblings.

As a newbie, I would like to urge you all not to be despaired. A lot of people did not grow up in an environment with dogs. The fact that people come here and ask a question, no matter how trivial, is an effort to seek help. Yes, the dog owning community is just like the society we live in, there are nut cases, thick headed cases and etc. Withholding your great advices won't do anything. Instead, even at the risk of falling on deaf ears, the advice or experience shared is bound to reach someone, somewhere. That's the beauty of forum on the internet. Some dog's life may improve drastically just because you took several minute out of your life to type. You know what, I am from China. There is no obedient school or behaviorist around. My dogs are healthy, happy and reasonably well behave because of you (and a load of books of course.) Keep up the good work, it is appreciated. Ben

Thanks for the replies Puggles and Jed. I am checking out the MDBA web site. Sounds like an excellent course.

I was having the same problem a couple of months ago. And like you, ignoring the dog when he/she barks doesn't work. In hind sight, the dog was excited and seeking attention, ignoring him would only encourage him to bark harder. I now allow my dogs to bark a couple of times when they are excited (i.e. visitor at the door, children playing outside, etc). Praise they "Good boy" and then ask them to be "quiet", timing is essential. As soon as one of them stopped for a split second, I will REALLY praise the little man. If they didn't stop, I would shout "QUIET" and tug on his collar. This would shock them a little and stopped the barking. When a couple of second then praise him for being quiet. Increase the silent period a couple of second at a time. Both of my dog master the "quiet" command in a week. Things to keep in mind. 1. Don't punish them for barking, barking is natural for them. Only reprimand them when they disobey your command, i.e. "BE QUIET". 2. Ignoring them won't work. 3. You may also want to teach them to get and hold their leash in their months in preparation to a walk. When their months are full, they can't bark. 4. Sometimes, when he is being a good boy, laying down on the floor peacefully. Let them know you appreciate that. Just a small pet is good. Lastly, I am a newbie. That's just what I did to my dogs and it happens to work.

My favourite is Revolution. It prevents ear mite, flea and heartworm, not that good on ticks but in my area, that's not much of a problem. I have tried Frontline Plus + Heardgard but both of my dogs picked up ear mites (yup, I let them play with strange dogs in the park.)

Sorry to barge in. Could someone point me to the right direction to understand more about the entry requirement and format of the course? I am from overseas and am trying to get some education on canine nutrition. Currently I am looking at a self-paced course offered by Purdue in the US. Just wondering if the MDBA course is a distance learning one too. Thanks, Ben

You can use a chalk bag for rock climbing. Not as cheap a solution as ziplock but it looks cool!

Thanks InDogWeTrust and sunny70. The method worked! They learn to settle on command after just being forced to do so twice. We are not in Australia, so it is not from a registered breeder. Chili is 57 days old now, we got him when he is 51 days (a week after the first shot). The breeder did warning us about the problem and asked us to supervise play at all time. Again, thank you all for your inputs.

Thank you all for sharing. I'll let them play when I can supervise closely. BTW, I found that if I let them play near the sofa, the sheltie can get under it when the playing is too rough. This is not perfect but that will keep them interacting without damage. showdog, could you share briefly how you teach the smaller dogs to play with bigger ones? The sheltie is the dominant one in the litter. The goldie is quite gentle with him at first until this little guy growls, bites and screams.

Thanks cowanbree, That's exactly my problem. They can't sort it out without playing rough. The little guy is already limping. Vet said he is ok but I am a bit nervous to let them play together. I am not quick enough to stop them.

Dear all, Some backgrounds:- 1. Our golden retriever is now 6 months old. We had him since he was 8 weeks old. We gave him basic puppy obedience training. He is very submissive bordering on lacking self-confidence. (We are slowly building his confidence with ball catching games and retreiving in water.) 2. The new Sheltie come home at a very bad timing because we recently moved to a new flat, the goldie is still adjusting to the new environment. The new Sheltie is a very aggressive puppy. Wouldn't go down without a fight, so the goldie can't subdue this little guy. The problem is that I can't let him to be too physical because of the size difference. Yet I can't restrain the goldie too harshly because the Sheltie needs to know his place in the pack. I now put the Sheltie in a crate and let them sniff and yap to each other across the crate door. What else can I do?

I think it also depends on the breed too. My golden retreiver seldom barks. I live in a unit and was worried about the same problem too. So I did use the techniques you mentioned. I also took a few weeks off to make sure he settled in. He was so silent to the point where my wife and I were worried that he could have a medical problem so he couldn't bark! We learned that he's okay when he got a tennis ball stuck under the cabinet and asked us to get it for him! Man, he has a very LOUD bark.

Hi Jed, Quick questions, 1. I've been trying to search for the symtoms of Vit C poisoning on the web but there isn't any. What did the vet said about over dosing Vit C? 2. What did the vet say a normal dose is? Thanks, Ben

BTW, my boy is 3 months and 1 week old. TickerFactory is great.

Relax wolfgirl, Believe me when i said I read everything I can get my hands on. My boy is on Rhonda Hovan's Slow-Grow plan, my vet gave me the ok, so I am not worry. As for the breeder, no, I did not buy from him. For someone to say feeling the tummy can tell whether there is worm, he is either a psychic or a fool. Thanks for the offer. I am now in China though. Ben

The problem for me is that what is "the best condition". I never have a dog before so I can't tell by myself. What's worse, many expert figures around me are in fact very ignorant and un-educated. e.g. 1) A pet shop owner told me that my boy is very under weight. I explained that he is on a growth plan and I am actually controlling his weight gain very carefully to avoid possible joint problems. "Oh no, you absolutely can't do that," he said, "your boy is entering a rapid growth stage, you have to feed him as much as he eats and supplement with calcium everyday." :rolleyes: e.g. 2) A lab breeder on hearing that my boy is on raw diet, turned my boy over and touched his belly for a moment or two. "Your boy has a lot of worms, you should fed him de-wormer every month". I said,"Wow, can you teach me how to feel for internal worms?" "No, it is not easy, boy. I've been breeding labs for 20 years, it takes experience do feel that. BTW, buy the dewormer by Bayer, it's the best and it will clear your boy in no time. It's called D-something Plus, got that?" "Yes, sir. I believe it's called Drontal Plus. I just fed my boy one 10 days ago."

Hazz, How long since you made that switch? Ben

Hi Kristie, The problem is, the more I read, the more I realise how much I don't know. That's why I started this thread to see the long term condition of dogs on RMB/BARF. I can't just accept the argument that nature is best, so what a wolf eats is the best for my boy. There isn't a single peer reviewed study showing that RMB is better than kibble. On the flip side, IMO it is a load of BS that any dry food is a balance diet for your dog. Nutrient requirment varies for each dog because of their living environment, daily activity, genetic disposition and etc. One size really can't fit all no matter how "PREMIUM" it is. What is perfect for Barker may not be the best for Mitchi. regards, ben