Steve K9Pro

K9: try looking at this article on the The TRIANGLE of Temptation.

Ci: K9: I dont know any trainer that doesnt use positive motivation, Im talking about those who are purely positive, or at least say they are. K9: & I dont know anyone who does this either?

K9: all is covered well, well done.

K9: you did not miss interpret what was being said Reeda, they often these days tell people that the "D" word doesnt exist in dogs. K9: the dog thats initiates the "mount" or the "stand over" rarely displays any aggression, so these acts are not acts of aggression at all. The dog that is the victim of these acts "may" retaliate & this is where aggression enters. True Alphas are passive, not aggressive, Betas (the Alpha wannabe's) are the aggressive dog in the pack, Omegas are happy to take guidance from leaders.

K9: there is a small minority world wide that subscribe to this theory. Some people like to think that if they re invent the wheel, they can sell people lots of new wheels. If the new product does the same as the old, one would then ask, why re invent the wheel?

Lia: K9: the earlier you start the better, but I believe its never too late to try... Lia: K9: your right, it does, dogs can learn that if they resist long & hard enough, you will give up. Lia: K9: & in some dogs it always will be, but 99.9% can greatly benefit from a management program. Lia: K9: you will definately benefit, & learn to prevent this re coouring with other dogs too. ***************************************** Thanks to those for the kind words...

K9: because they are the most effective form of communication with a dog. K9: the remote training collar was not used in this case, although it would have been an exceptional way to retrain this dog had conventional methods failed. The e collar can provide emotionless discomfort, this will build trust when the trainer knows how to give the dog control to switch off the collar. K9: no they dont, an overly aggressive wolf in a pack would be killed by the other pack members. That is there rehab method. K9: its not "known" at all, in fact that would be missuse of the tool, not correct use. Same as if the dog shows aggression toward a child, & you pull the dog away & give it a food treat, if the dog is still in rank drive & the child is still there, you could inadvertantly reward the aggression & increase it. That has been known to occur. K9: yes Im well aware of the status in england. Its a shame that ignorance rules over results. K9: I am going to suggest that you have never used one of these gadgets, right? K9: each to their own, Im not talking about half a dozen dogs that I have had some success with, Im talking thousands.... where natural methods failed. The remote collars are not required by all dogs or all trainers, but they shouldnt be ruled out of your training toolbox due to your political stance. If you look at the truth about e collars article, you may learn some thing about modern use of the remote training collars. There is no pain added & the collar acts as a behavioural interuptor, a tap on the shoulder one might say. I have used these collars to solve many problems, just didnt need one in this case. I have simply responded to explain that the people that still refer to electronic training aids as "shock" collars are well behind the latest behaviour modification & training methods. Electricty can generate heat, heat can warm your bed in the form of an electric blanket, heat can warm your house, it can also cook your food. In extreme cases is can cremate your body. Cave men ran from fire (heat), lucky not all of them did.

K9: location isnt important to me nor is the content. Any of the suggestions mentioned so far are all good for me. Its really up to you guys, Im happy doing either. There is a case study I just posted thats worth a read, these methods are easy to teach & they get results fast.

This is a case study I have been working on, it will be submitted to various journals vet mags etc. It demonstrates how little is sometimes required to solve a large problem. Case Study: Toffee Shepherd Cross Cattle Desexed approx 2 year old female. Living with another dog in household. Owners: Cindy & Elwyn. I was contacted by the foster carers of Toffee, as they were reporting aggression toward other dogs, & recently people. Whilst waiting for the appointment date, Cindy contacted me again explaining that through an attempt to attack another dog, Toffee had bitten her on the leg in an episode of handler aggression. Whilst the attack was not directed at Cindy, as it was driven by frustration, it still was a concern. On the 23rd October 2004, we conducted a behaviour consultation with Toffee in attendance were Cindy & Elwyn, the dog’s owners. On meeting at their vehicle, Toffee was exhibiting flight behaviours at the sound of my dogs barking from their enclosed pens. This included piloerection, sniffing the ground, her tail was tucked & she was repeatedly flighting into the end of the leash. I took her leash & walked Cindy, Elwyn & Toffee to the consult room. During this time further symptoms of fear were displayed and Toffee was now exhibiting fight behaviours including defensive barking, pulling on leash & growling at my dogs, who were out of site. We entered the consult room and got seated to discuss the situation and perform the evaluation. At the 15 minute mark, Toffee had settled somewhat but it was obvious that she was still very nervy about the unfamiliar environment. She was gaining no reassurance from the presence of her owners, as is the case with many fear aggressive dogs. Through discussions I was able to explain that Toffee was subject to a severe fear phobia, & that she was using aggression as a safe guard from anything she feared. Her loose stools & behaviour at home served as further confirmation of this. I had a non reactive very friendly black Labrador that I allowed to run around my property during the second 15 minutes of the consult. The dogs were separated by glass doors & he paid little attention to Toffee. Toffee’s reaction to as little as a passing run of the Labrador was severe aggression. Barking, piloerection, teeth being bared, tail stiff, stoic body posture & growling were being exhibited to such a degree that Toffee could not be interrupted by conventional means. I allowed the Labrador to pass the room several times over 20 minutes with zero reduction in reaction from Toffee. They never in this time came any closer than 10 metres, & had a glass door between them. This was a severely fearful dog. After explaining how Toffee was feeling, I discussed some programs that Cindy & Elwyn would need to put in place. Whilst this problem was quite severe, one of the main contributing factors that needs to be considered is the commitment the owners are willing to put in. Even minor problems need commitment & consistency from the dog’s owners and complicating Toffee’s case was the fact that she was being fostered for a rescue organisation. I was confident that Cindy & Elwyn were committed to helping Toffee however the options were limited. The dog could not be rehomed, the problem was not tolerable and that left an attempt at rehabilitation or Euthanasia. After being made aware of these options Cindy and Elwyn made the decision to adopt Toffee and attempt the process of rehabilitation. We then went to the training field and allowed Toffee to settle in yet another environment. I spent a few moments teaching/imprinting some leash manners in Toffee & then went to get a dog so that I could evaluate Toffee’s critical distance., That is, the distance in which Toffee would consider any advancement toward her unacceptable & display aggression. A circle of 10 metres is common as a starting point for many dogs. I walked toward the training field with my non reactive labrador, that was paying no attention to Toffee at all. Toffee began to display aggression at a distance of 50 metres plus. Almost any sight of any dog was enough to trigger her defence drive and have her displaying fight behaviours. I positioned my labrador with Cindy and took Toffee on my leash. By using classic conditioning methods I was able to redirect Toffee’s attention back on me and reduce the defence drive. We positioned my labrador so that he was facing away from Toffee, making eye contact impossible. Through a varied process of desensitization I was able to bring Toffee within 5 metres of my dog in a time frame of approximately 15 minutes. I also had my labrador heel with Cindy and move around the field in various positions which allowed me to evaluate Toffee’s response to each position. We spent another few minutes with some calming positions to give Toffee somewhere to go in times of fear, rather than showing aggression. I replaced the labrador with one of my German Shepherds, a large entire male. Our achievements in this lesson had been fantastic and we had reduced Toffee’s reactive distance of 50 metres plus to within 5 metres with limited reactions. We spent some further time desensitizing Toffee to yet another dog. To do this we utilised the leash training and attention getting exercises, and also used the calming positions that I had taught her a few minutes before. Within less than one hour on the training field, Toffee was making eye contact, sniffing and licked my GSD’s face. I walked her around and around with Toffee stepping over my GSD as we were now within less than 1 metre of mu GSD . There were no signs of fear displayed any longer. I did however reward Toffee for her new reaction. She was then handed to her owners and those moves rehearsed. We did not see any more aggression in this session. When we headed back to the training room, another dog was present and Toffee’s reaction was remarkably improved. Toffee will never feel 100% comfortable around other strange dogs, however what we are trying to achieve is for her to trust and rely on her owners in times of stress, not react with aggression. I set a program that included my own feeding and respect program called the Triangle of Temptation and also recommended use of the world wide program, NILIF, nothing in life is free. Further recommendations included a high dose of rescue remedy for 30 days and observation of the effect it has on Toffee and her stools. If not enough effect takes place we would then be seeking a 6 panel thyroid test and possibly a low to medium dose of Clomicalm. More training of leash manners and some lessons in how dogs should meet in this program. Since the consult, Toffee has shown a mixed improvement with an overall positive result for the small amount of time that has passed. I do believe that Cindy and Elwyn will, in a short time, be able to have this severe phobia, well under effective management. Steve Courtney Accredited Dog Obedience Trainer Accredited Law Enforcement Dog Trainer Accredited Canine Behaviour Consultant. K9 Force Professional Dog Training & Behaviour Consultancy www.k9force.net [email protected] 0409 300 613

K9: lol, I wouldnt say a "fortune", if you had ten people I will come to SA.

K9: yes of course, the advantage of having it when Im there is a saving of the air fare. Thats already covered on the Good dogs clinics one.

K9: I have sent another email & thought if anyone is out there undecided, I would give the options the people on the list are considering. I will be in Victoria for 2 days, in that two days, I will be running a workshop on both days. The options are: One day obedience training principles, basic to advanced One day Behaviour problems such as aggression, phobias, digging, barking etc etc. or 2 days with the same agenda on each, agenda set by attendees. I have the numbers to fill both days, & then some, so if your still thinking about coming, register your interest now as I will be closing that list shortly.

Natasha, send me an email & I will add ou to the list. The latest email was sent out in last 2 days. [email protected]

K9: To all those that showed interest, we now have a venue & dates. There are two workshops being run, one Saturday the 23rd April, the other Sunday 24th April. This was all sent out in an e-mail to those that added their name to the list put to gether by Salli. If you did not recieve this e-mail or would like to be added to the list, please e-mail me now on [email protected] We are almost full, so please get in quick to avoid disapointment

TM: K9: the leash is attached under the chin, the dog lunges forward & hits the end of the leash, the head pivots at the first joint of the spine & pulls the head around, similar to whip lash in humans. TM: & then TM: K9: I find it hard to follow you, with these type of conflicting comments, Im glad it worked for you to some extent, Im just stating my opinion on them & the risks associated. Divine angel: K9: can you tell me, or maybe ask your friend, why the halter works? Why is it good for large strong dogs? I know the answers, but I think you should do your research first.

T: K9: yes I agree it does this, the reason it does it though is as the dog considers the halter an aversive, & aversives reduce drive, take some drive out of a dog is an easy way to get control. This is exactly what a correction collar does, minus the risks. They are nothing like a muzzle, its hard to educate those who think they do...

TM: K9: then I will suggest that your dog did not need the halti to stop pulling. TM: K9: I am having trouble understanding the above, it works or it doesnt? Not a good idea to pull, then still pulls other times? TM: K9: might be worth speaking to the canine chiros who treat neck injuries from them. TM: K9: if they are fitted correctly, & sized correctly, they dont come off. But if you think they do, thats another reason not to use them. TM: K9: when I say neck, Im taking about spinal injury. The fact that the leash is hooked under the chin will snap the dogs neck around if it lunges. Dogs stop pulling as pulling strains neck muscles causing pain & they back off to release this pain. Other more experienced handlers use the halters to guide the head around & take focus off what the dog is pulling toward. I have a rule in dog training, many actually but here is one "learning will only take place when the dog offers the behaviour". This means that if you pull the head around to gain focus, you will always be pulling it around... In their design, the muzzle strap restricts when pull the leash, often that big pink thing (tongue) gets bitten when this happens...

G: K9: the only critisism I have on halters as a training tool is that I dont believe that they train the dog at all, rather manage the problem. As a restraint, Im critical as they can & do cause neck injuries, I cant see how that is right for anyone, or their dog. I have said before that due to the amount of leverage you have over the dog, you may get instant results, but I dont feel that those results are lasting nor worth the risk to the dog. Others will disagree, which I can understand. There is nothing you can do with a halti that you wont do with other collars, without the risk.

K9: Ci is correct, keep the rope on. A good rule of thumb is never let your dog of leash until your 100% that you have control under that level of distraction, this applies to land & water.

K9: yes, I use it the same way & also theraputically. Rather than just on dogs through bitework.

G: K9: lol, I know, it just takes more training under distraction. G: K9: On land, I teach my dogs a command known as into my arms. Its like a human kennel I bring them into to slow them down in drive, comfort them in times of stress etc. I use this into my arms in the water when I can stand up, they come to me & I can hold them up, so they stop swimming. The into my arms position is the dog coming to me & leaning its rib cage on me. So no scratches.

G: K9: water is just another distraction that I train over... I have my dogs heel whilst I swim, or recall, anything but sit & drop Compliance in the water is the same as on land. Swimming is a great muscle builder with little impact....

K9: I give discounts to everyone!!

K9: most of the dogs I own have been genetically bred for the highest prey drive you can find. They still recall... K9: sure This is the future ;) K9: where are you located?

K9: there are several methods that will give you reliable recalls in short space of time. Things such as tyhe dogs temperament need to be evaluated first to choose a method. K9: how? "here boy". ;) It requires a temp eval, plus training over the net is the wrong way to go about things.