Steve K9Pro

K9: if they are willing to travel to the hawkesbury as many do thay can contact me, however Im booked out solid until mid april.

K9: ok, but just to clarify, not a trainer, a behaviourist... Where are you located? Also, dogs dont do anything unprovoked, some will argue the provocation was not justified, but there is always a reason.

K9: the first thing that needs to take place is an evaluation on the dog. Then a program designed based on the nature of the problem. K9: possibly, but it really doesnt matter, its not how one gets here, its how they get back. K9: which may be adding to the problem.. K9: yes well, vets are not experienced at working with dogs like this, a good behaviourist would be the best step. I look at many dogs every week with severe aggression problems, owner willing & commited we have a higher than 99% success rate.

K9: if the training is done correctly, the dog will not use the leash for communication with the handler, it will watch & listen to the handler.

K9: Im guessing the way they use the leash is held tight all the time, if it wasnit the dog would not know it was on or off leash. The deep bark etc is from defence drive, this means the dog feaqrs people. Maybe the leash gives security, maybe not. Firstly, the dog should not be allowed off leash until it will recall under distraction. Then a desensitization program will be required to reduce/eliminate the problem.

D: K9: your welcome, anytime. G: K9: most welcome, good luck.

K9: I dont think your giving people enough credit, I cant see any deterioration? However, if it does or did, its pretty easy for you not to read the thread? isnt it? I cant understand why certain things cant be discussed, self control people, self control. I also cant see the reason for any moderation on this thread, or so far to ask the moderators to "watch for it". & if there was, Im sure there would have been some intervention. Surely adults can decide in most threads how far they want to go? I also think there are people here who would like the information, 1700 + hits proves that, so just because you dont like these tools is no need to log onto the thread & try & stop it. If this discussion had been "done to death" as you said, there wouldnt be 1700 + hits. We could also say that many topics have been done to death, thats no reason they cant be brought up again, new people join may like new & updated info. I might suggest "personal moderation", in which if you feel you can gain nothing from the thread, or add nothing to it, simply dont click on it.

K9: perhaps you could let us all in on the joke Dianne? Seeing that you added it to the thread?

K9: contact Chelseas mum on this forum, I haved spoken to her via email & she is having great results with her dog.

EA: K9: I felt the relevant point was to mention one reason why they "may" hint that prong collars are illegal when they arent. I dont think the rest of the story has any bearing on this thread. EA: K9: My understanding after hearing it from the Horses mouth, John Holiday, was that. Hugh Wirth made false statement on radio about the collars. He was asked to stop by Innotek. He didnt. Innotek made some comments about him. It went to court. RSPCA presented a man with three burns on his arm that lined up with the probes from a no bark collar, they claimed the man had been burned by same collar. Innotek offered that the centre or third probe on the collar was a PLASTIC VIBRATION SENSOR that emitted no current or heat, it was therefore impossible to burn. There was other eveidence that was disproven also. Innotek won the case, the shame is that the money given to them would otherwise help dogs. Hugh Wirth counter sued Innotek as they had said some things about him publically that were found to be defaming. The rest of the FACTS do not have any bearing on the fact that evidence presented was not accurate.

K9: if anyone doesnt have the time to read through the jargon, this article has nothing to do with prong collars. By the way Eddy, are you saying that the section of my post that you quoted is not true?

R: K9: nothing has been taken personally by me.. ok? R: K9: lol, regardless of why you need to know, I gave you some advice, ask for a reference such as the law or the act, or get it in writing. Have a great time where ever your going.

K9: It wouldnt be illegal for me to do so, but it would be illegal for you to use one.

Rusky: K9: I dont think I have been either, but next time your going to advise me on a new method, as you did, please back it up with some experience. R: K9: Firstly, Laws are made on the back of Politics, not facts. Secondly, I have known many to say certain tools are banned simply as they dont like them. R: K9: Ill remind you again that it is in Victoria, & that ban occured through ignorance. R: K9: these collars are super effecrive, there would be no advantage gained by sharpening prongs. R: K9: your confusing use with importation. Importation is restricted tio those that have a permit. Those trying to import these collars without a permit can be charged or at least they wont get their collar. Using a prong collar in NSW is unrestricted. R: K9: ask to see the law or act it comes from. Or ask them for it in writing... Have you read the case where the RSPCA falsified evidence against electronic collars, were caught & paid $100 000.00 plus to Innotek??? Would they tell you something that wasnt true???? ************************** Ricey: K9: no surprise here..... R: K9: as people from WA order them, I have made the calls myself in the past, each time I was given advice not to use one, but when I asked for the act or law, they couldnt provide it. This is known as politics. *********************** Eddy: K9: Each permit is granted on its own merit... A letter with your reason for import will be considered by the minister. ****************** Ricey: K9: there has been many an argument on this basis, it will take someone to push hard to get them legalised in Vic again. ******************* Anne: K9: miss labelling an item for importation will suffer heavy penalties. I call mine training collars (prong type). I think it will make no difference what you write, they x ray the packs anyway. ***************************** K9: These collars always raise eyebrows, reason being is that they look like medievil torture devices. The prongs do not stick into the skin, they contact it at an angle. The collars are a two stage collar, stage one is that you can issue a very precise correction, for example, with a check chain you have about three levels of correction: 1. nagging tug used as a reminder 2. medium pop, correction when dog is not too heavily distracted. 3. hard correction, when dog is heavily distrtacted. I have found martingales to have about 5 levels & prongs about 10. 10 equalling the intensity of level 3 on a check chain. The varible levels gives you more precise communication with the dog. The second stage of a prong occures when the dog lunges, whilst this may normally rip out your arm, the limited slip action of the prong causes the link to close up & firmly pinch the dog around the complete neck. This causes the dog pain, yes. The timing is great as the dog is the one who corrects himself. I dont know many dogs who do thsi more than once, most never do it at all. The alternative is to have the dog jerk & pull you every time it pleases. When a dog does this, it wins or gains success every time, this means the lunging etc will never stop. I have used prongs for many years, never have I seen a bruise or injury caused by one. This is a tool, a damn good one, it needs to be used with a good method. If you are having to use any correction collar where you need to jerk hard, causing pain, your method is lacking. We advise people here to start on a martingale, I will even use a loan one on their dog to see how effective it will be, if the dogs handler is struggling to gain confident control of the dog, due to handler to dog weight ratio or strength ratio, then we try a prong. The owners make their own choice. Its about getting results & giving confidence back to the handler & getting them to enjoy (walking) their dog again.

K9: I would also like to add this, if I lived in Victoria where prong collars have been banned, I would be actively fighting this ruling, as it is based on zero facts & 100% ignorance. I would still use a prong collar there if I felt that it would help my dog & nothing else would. If you are out there to help your dog, politics shouldnt play a part in it.

Rusky: K9: ever? wow. Rusky: K9: except you cant prove it, right? K9: have before & have again, they are not banned for use in NSW. Rusky: K9: is this on a ship or? (crew?) please explain. Rusky: K9: ahh, thats narrows it down. Rusky: K9: in small print WITHOUT A PERMIT! K9: In victoria. K9: if each state has its own regs, how is there one that is Aust wide? :rolleyes: K9: you can be charged with cruelty if you use one & are being cruel, the same can be said for using a piece of timber. K9: I dont blame you, you just havent got any (facts). If you go & look on the customs web oage, you will see that they can be imported with a permit, dont take my word for it, go look. Look at the Prevention of cruelty acts in NSW, no mention of prongs, it is however in the Victorian act, look in the other acts, its not there either.... Facts are facts, not hearsay... Rusky: K9: of course I have, & as I said, they are.... I would not take the word of anyone, I will need to see something on an official document before I believe what is said these days, peoples political opinion often clouds the truth....

K9: http://www.australiandogtraining.com.au/clients/Skully.html here is yet another story (not one of mine) of success.

Rusky: K9: maybe you can direct us to the NSW law that says that. R: K9: its not a method, its a tool. But maybe you can tell us how you would re train a habitual puller that could easily out pull the owner? & how many dogs you have trained like this.

K9: The third consult is now taken, the day is full, thanks all.

K9: could those who have reserved a place please send me an emai on [email protected] so I can add you to a group email for future details.

An email has just been sent to all those I have on my list of interested people. If you do not get this email, please let me know asap.

K9: there are simple traini ng steps to fix this problem for ever. Any good trainer will sort your dog very quickly, I dont use head halters as I wont use anything thart may injure the dog, neck injuries are common with head halters.

K9: the dog will never learn unless it offers the behaviour...........

SD: K9: Oh I havent run myself over the jumps since I was in my twenties... lol.. Really, for behavioural issues I sit down, talk to the owner & basically hold the dog on a leash, that I will bring. So a seat for me & dog owner is about all I need, but I can bring that. When we have confirmed numbers, I will send out info sheets by email advising dogs on leash at all times & other guidlines.

H: K9: Its goling to depend on the problem/s the dog/s have, normally its ok to have two dogs there, you will need a second handler of course, but if you had a list of problems with each, you may not get them all covered in two hours.