Steve K9Pro

yes, the ones I use a=have a 20% stretch at about 60kgs, when I run a civil agitation lesson on an attack dog, you have to remind yourself after he reaches the end of the line, he will keep coming for a few steps. (Civil agitation = no protective equipment) lol.

K9: sorry thats not what I meant, free advice your most welcome to, the stuff on here is very basic anyway, lol. Dont try too hard to convince your BF, I havent looked but I think Im all booked up the rest of this year... Maybe a place or two left somewhere...

E: K9: 1. when your dog is aggressive & when approached by an off leash dog. 2. when you dont have voice control of your dog, need to use physical control. I dont use dogs I meet on the street as training decoys, too many chances for failure. E": K9: I feel that the dog hits the heights in aggression very quickly, but over time, the threshold to defence lowers, meaning it takes less to trigger aggression than it did in the beginning.

K9: can be bought at any Radio shop like Tandy, DSE etc, the scan frequencies like Police Channels etc... You can only recieve, not transmit, so hear not speak, lol... When someone is using the collar, I can have the scanner on my belt or utility vest & hear how long the dog is being stimmed, when & monitor the timing, as can anyone else watching..

K9: its all good however you will also need to formally work past this, not wait until you see a dog then try & figure it all out. You will need to get someone to handle the other dog, this all needs to be done in a program.

K9: for long line attack work where the dog is on a tie out, I use 12mm bungie cord, so there is no impact at the end of the leash.

CM: K9: Oh come on... you have done the work not me.... Your a natural, both tools I have talked to you about using you have picked up in a millisecond, dog training world is calling out for people like you... Specially in WA.

Another link on E collars

K9: what this means is, when I am training someone to use the remote collar or they need to understand my method, I use a radio scanner, that I tune into the 27Mhz signal put out by the remote. This means that anyone in ear shot can hear an audio reference of when the trainer is stimming the dog (pressing the remote). It's nice to show people how little you need to use the collar to get those outstanding results... ********************** K9: Well done Chelseas mum, you have done an amazing job with her...

K9: the problem that most people find with dog aggression is that treating it doesnt fall into the relms of basic dog training, many trainers simply correct what they dont like, & praise what they do. Attempting to correct fear aggression, as you can see from this thread makes you part of the problem not part of the solution. The dogs often display aggression as they feel thats what is protecting them, so in theory, the way to correct aggression would be to have the approaching dog attack... This would teach the fear aggressor that aggression isnt the key & look for something else. But as that cant be done, we need to take the leadership role. As a side note, the majority of dogs show strong signs of avoidance before aggression in the early stages, it's when the handler ignores these signs or simply doesnt see them that aggression appears as the dog feels there is no other option. Then once the dog see's how powerful a tool the aggression is, it calls upon it more & more often. The end result is that these dogs cant flip in & out of defence drive & rank drive, half the time they become bullies who want to defeat / dominate other dogs as they have learned how to.. Becoming a good leader is done via a number of steps.. As a rule, I advise my clients of a move that I have used many times. If a strange dog approaches, I take up the slack in the leash & put my fist that holds the leash into the small of my back, this makes the dog get up on his toes as there isnt enough leash, it also puts the dog behind me. I can face the dog & chase it off. If the dog tries to run around me whilst it's incompetant owner runs the other way, I can spin on the spot & my dog is dragghed with me. My dogs focus is on keeping the leash from choking him so he doesnt get envolved. This is what I do with a dg without a lot of training. One time I was at a river with a friend, & 4 of my GSDs, a JRT came running at us, barking, growling, the usual.. Smallest GSD I had was 42 kg, my male 50kg. All have extensive attack work training. JR prob 8kgs, lol. We were walking on the river bed about a foot of water, I command them all to drop & stay & walk off to intercept the JR. I end up catching it & holding it for the owner. My friend says "why put your dogs in a drop, they could tear that thing apart". The answer is, no dog ever wins a fight, one gets hurt & the other learns he can beat up other dogs.

HR: K9: there certainly is enough for everyone, Im sure Im getting more than my share lol... M: K9: well you will need the whip, cause I cant understand the hell what your talking about....

K9: I have had peope working for me, it just didnt work out. I wont forget you Haven. lol.

K9: controlling the meet = protecting your dog from others, get both dogs on leash, keep them apart for a few minutes & see how they look, if both dogs look excited to get to eachother, tails wagging, allow them to meet on looses leashes, sniffing butts first. When they have sniffed eachother, keep your leashes at 180 degrees, if something starts unexpectadley, you can just pull your dog away, dont allow leads to tangle. If your dog or the other dog is showing signs of aggression, or more importantly, avoidance, walk away.

GA: K9: your dog is on the theshold of avoidance, she is ready to run if need be. The job of protecting your dog is yours, your simply allowing off leash dogs to run up to her & see what happens, this could easily make your dog fear aggressive given the signs she is displaying. I would suggest you stop allowing these dogs to run up to her in this manner, but control the meet so that she regains trust in you.

Thanks for all of those who have emailed me, the response has been huge, I hope we can accomodate all those (but I doubt it lol). I will soon be putting together some final details & from that making a final list of people who will be coming. It's going to be first in, first served type of arrangement. I will give plenty of notice so the people very keen can reserve their place in time. I will do my best to keep as many as I can satisfied. I would also like to add that there are many great trainers that reside in Victoria, thats not the reason I have these workshops interstate. The main reason is that I talk to people all over the country by phone, email & forums daily, & I like to give those interstate people the occasional chance to meet me in person & explain what I have been telling them in person, hopefully demonstrating with a dog. I have had so many great people travel from every state to see me with their dog, & New Zealand, Tasmania & PNG, & I have been fortunate enough to be able to help those with their dogs with some email follow up after the consult. I believe part of my reputation has been built as I will come to see people, where ever they are, maybe even Europe next year lol, I have been to the big cities & country towns & have been delighted at the friendly reception I have recieved every time. I would rather run three workshops of 15 people per shop than 1 with 45 people, just becuase I like to meet everyone & try & spend time with every dog, not the most profitable way to do it but I believe the best. Thanks once again for everyone who has emailed me, I am still accepting emails of interest for another few days before we start working on numbers.

K9: your welcome guys. I find that there are a lot of people concerned with how "humane" the training program sounds, rather than how well it works or doesnt. Results first, everything comes after those.

Erny: K9: I agree, however, I would also be trying to use a drive, such as prey drive to make this happen a little easier. You may play ball a little, then walk forward keeping the dogs focus on the ball, have the dog go into the down position & as soon as it does throw the ball & release the dog... It will be in the dogs best interest to go down fast & not roll over. There will be no rank or submission issues, no fear if the dog is in prey drive..

K9: forgive me for showing up late to the dance folks, but better late than never (maybe). Kitty: K9: walking over was enough to gain your dogs attention & stop it from doing what it was doing, that would have been enough without the "no". But you did no harm. Tess: K9: whilst this is true, you didnt hear her say "no" nor did you se the puppies reaction, so you cant say it was actually seen as punishment by the dog, the pup may have simply blown her off... Tess: K9: what I wouldnt do is rate all puppies as the same, some of mine what bark at you if you yelled at them... Again, aggression is a strong word here... Tess: K9: most likely... ? most likely she will chew any way, she's a puppy, you said it right here... lol.. T: K9: I certainly wouldnt be hanging the instructors on what you have read here... When talking about training to new people, I often explain the way I feel aversives should be used, the level of aversive is chosen by the dog, not the trainer. If a glance will stop the behaviour, thats all thats needed, if it takes a neck scruff, then it does. T: K9: agreed, however as long as one is aware that is maintenance, not training. E: K9": I believe that dogs should not be punished, but suffer consequences for their actions, the difference between the two is the attitude of the trainer, as Erny has hit on. T: K9: there is if your verbal reprimand is getting you no results... Tollers, whilst your own dogs may heed you, some dogs are very hard & determined, & it also has a lot to do with how far into drive the dog is... T: K9: whilst this can happen, I feel its more likely to happen when the trainer is conveying anger, thus punishing the dog. T: K9: I havent met an animal on the earth that learns a behaviour after one rep, & I feel that if your dog lost trust in you after one, I would say you had no bond to begin with. T: K9: That goes for everyone that attempts any type of training whether under guidance or not. T: K9: I dont feel this is true, how would a bitch learn this? Tess: K9: I guess there isnt a training program on the earth that doesnt have some degree of fallout, I dont feel though that the outcomes you predict are likely from Kittys action. Tess: K9: all gambers loose sometimes. there is a saying "its not what is said, but what is heard". Tess: K9: we all started somewhere & if someone didnt trust us with some slightly risky info, where would we be? Tess: K9": as the pup is not focussing on "building your friendship" but instead, chewing your gear, this is why so many pups hit the pound... Tess: K9:ot mutual at all. By your advice to eliminating the things to chew, you have no trust. trust in you yes,. tess: K9: not to be argumentative, but using your theory, the pup could see that your not there to reward & chew something else.... Tess:" K9: but she didnt do that? Its perfectly acceptable if it takes that to sop the pup... HR: K9: i would add, its not done in anger & thats the level of aversive required to stop the behaviour... PGM: K9: true & we must remember that all dogs are different, I have seen some that lick Vicks.. I see many people giving advice here, but something is missing, the people talking about what worked on their one pet dog are talking with a great deal of passion, but (no offence) limited experience. Others, Haven, Erny, Herr Rottweller (from my guess), to name a few, are speaking of how they have worked many dogs, hundreds, thousands maybe. They valueable lesson that has been touched on is that no 2 dogs are alike. Some, through temperament will require more aversives than others, some through drive will need more aversives, others may need almost none... I let the dog decide, then methodically train through triggers that are not related to me, orthe trainer, the behaviour that is acceptable/desireable..

E: K9: camera, even fake one mounted on pole to be very visable that looks like it covering fence is a great deterent, also stops those fool neighbours that insist on provoking dogs then whinning about the barking.... Having said that, I have never had a neighbour that spent much time near the fence where my dogs run... Of course a burst of automatic weapon fire over the fence has proved most effective. lol.

Erny: K9: sorry, I meant that this " You have a dog that is very low risk, & I will also bet, full of nerves & has no drive." is what you will likely end up with if you go for strict food refusal on a pet dog. E: K9: nor am I, its qite a common request with protection dogs etc & I advise to steer away from it, & provide a better solution such as eliminate the threat. E: K9: yes over the years I have seen quite a few dogs successfully trained in Food refusal, without problems & have trained several myself, just not in the last 10 years as I feel other ways are better without risk. But I have treated many more pets & hard dogs that the training had negative effects on. Showdog: K9: yes this is what I have found, but I feel its a terminology problem, food refusal is will not eat, no matter what, the dog believes eating is not possible out of the regime created by the handler. Not accepting food from strangers or eating off the ground may be a good manners training program. The dogs that I have worked with & trained this way, would not eat, period. I think thats over the top.

A: K9: "true" food refusal is a dog that wont eat unless its by a specific command, period. I have clients that have taught the dog this, via the tried & proven methods. The dog is taught to believe that if it doesnt eat from its own bowl, or when commanded to by that specific hanlder, it will pay for it. The way this is done is to initially scare the dog away from strabge food & finally cause the dog a considerable amount of pain by going near strange food. The food can then be picked up & fed to the dog from the bowl. If we teach an adult dog this, the problem is that if the dog is lost, found & impounded, it wont eat. If its boarded, it wont eat. If we train a puppy this way, your likely to find your self training in a development period such as a fear impact period, adding high aversives & fear in these times "will" cause fallout. If you try & cure any problem in which you may want use food, or try & use food treating to teach any new behaviour later on, forget it. I have conducted field searches with my dogs in areas in which fresh 1080 has been laid, when they have come accross it a simple leave it command was all that was required to get them moving along. When a dog comes accross some food, the initial act is to sniff/analyse, then maybe scoff it down. Whilst sniffing, leave it works well, if they touched it leave it (for my dogs) also works fine. Look at it this way, you go for a walk with your dog, that you have tried to remove rsik from, so yo snake proof the dog, then teach food refusal, teach it a leave it command & tecah it not to chase Kangaroos etc etc.. You have a dog that is very low risk, & I will also bet, full of nerves & has no drive. I have been brought dogs that people tried this & similar training steps on, it can take months to undo mistakes. Leave it command, permission to eat etc are all ok, true food refusal Im not keen on.

K9: its a shame they are so careless with the bait, however, there arent possible negative side effects, there are definate negative side effects. You would be better keeping an eye on your dogs when off leash.

K9: what your attempting to do is create a negative feeling about food, I would advise against it. Take a moment to think down the track when you board your dog somewhere & it wont eat, or if you ever have to over come an anxiety problem, that you might create with this type of training, & you have no way of food treating the dog? You would be better teaching the leave it command & keeping your dogs in sight when they are off leash. I also know that 1080 isnt put in places where you are supposed to be with your dog.

PJ: K9: ya think? lol... PJ: K9: if you go to the hand held prey item & she isnt as keen for it, you havent finished drive development yet. You stop drive development when the drive is developed, not when your tie post is failing. PJ: K9: yes, they can drop from exhaustion, hyper ventilate, de hydrate etc. But whilst in drfive they will go harder, further for longer. There is actually a "condition" that occurs that causes high drive animals to loose consciousness in drive. Quite rare though. PJ: K9: exhaustion is aversive this reducing drive. PJ: K9: if satisfaction never comes, the dog will give up looking for it there, just like someones dog here will chase ducks, has to learn that satisfa ction wont come there... Again I say, you may have no need to train in drive & your making a rod for your own back. All I can tell you is that after a "very short'' test with her, I could see potential.

Drop it right under his nose, the millisecond he moves at it jerk it away... Praise him like he is doing the best thing out... There's always hope, do nothing with Ob or anything other than that for one week, 10 mins a day, see how he goes. Keep your fingers out of his mouth.. lol..