Steve K9Pro

PJ: K9: if a full working dog, only the hander (ideally) if a pet, anyone in the house. Pj: K9: from experience, lot of dogs may want to attack your puppy too, but you need to see that it doesnt happen. PJ: K9: tell them not too. Like when a child wants to pick up a pup... PJ: K9: yes, & the pup would be in his/her crate. You might understand when I say peope that come to my place arent too often asking to play with my dogs... lol. PJ: K9: im not really concerned too much about the dog bothering them, they get over it, dogs dont. PJ: K9: everything other than prey (just about) that I provide. PJ: K9: they dont have any prey items, they are my prey items, I lte them play with them now & agin, under my command. PJ: K9: water isnt really an issue, they like it because sometimes prey is found there. Food is by TOT, or only from me, so they dont go looking for it elsewhere. PJ: K9: food isnt obtainable in the TOT with my command, & their compliance, hence food only had value when I say it does. In reality, they eat as they need to, not because they love it soo much. YB: K9: its not unlike people who go to shows with their puppy, or just take the puppy to "get it used to shows". By the time the dog is a serious competitor, the ring other dogs etc are of no interest... Same thing in reality.

PJ: K9: old, well socialised dogs do this very well, the other option is have an obedient dog in a down stay focus on the handler, then have puppy go near with no reaction form the other dog. PJ: K9: I make sure my voice is a big motivator to the pup, I show the dog maybe a car tyre & expect him to climb through, if he is struggling, I guide & help him with the leash, when he comes out the other side & give him food or prey item. I repeat & when I see the dog activly wantin g to do it, I move to something else. PJ: K9": dogs that I dont know dont get near my pups. Pj: K9: yes, however, dont use a calender, be guided by the dog temperament. PJ: K9: yes. PJ: K9: leash guide the dog back to me & give him something better... PJ": K9: I think, from what I saw, it has a lot to do with her requiring strong leadership. Try & remember how she behaved in my hands... K: K9: I havent been able to distinguish the clicker as any better than a verbal marker, so I use verbal markers. I do howver feel as I have control over my voice, I can vary the vlume of it etc, that verbal markers are a good way to shape. I know people who have good success with clickers, & people who have same success without. I would say bridging & marking are good training technique, but your voice vs a clicker is your voice vs a tool. Tess: K9: thats not so uncommon, each trigger is made of components, this means that a dog in the same room could be more stimuating than a dog the same distance away in a park. I did handle Jyra when I was in Vic last year, she was highly respective of me & in full pack drive for me in minutes, & chose to behave herself very well. She is a hard GSD with drive that will not be handled by someone who isnt a strong leader all of the time. S: K9: my program has similar prospects but when I say that, ofetn clicker fans go beserk, lol...

LL: K9: focus, control etc must be taught, but prey drive is a sunconscious desire to chase, not a learned event. LL: K9: Stamps issue was compiled from several issues, not just lack of praise but thatw as certainly a factor of it. PJ: K9: no, in most circumstances they just increase their focus... But in bhite work they know to bark to make the decoy flush & run. PJ: K9: ok, my dogs may do that, unless I put them into an ob command. This goes away when the dog understands he or she has a turn. PJ: K9: you do reduce her drive, save it for her turn... PJ: K9: its getting satisfaction but often in initialisation if it feels you may grab the tug... YB: K9: if the dog hasnt got a great desire to capture, you allow more captures, put a little bit of rough tug work in, then go again. As the dog gets more desire, yopu make it harder to capture... K: K9: when you over do it, its called praising to the point of distraction, when your teaching or relieving stress its a requirement.

K9: one thing I love about training in prey, When the dog is conditioned, this means that subconsciously, he WANTS to complete the excercise. He obeys commands to make this happen, this also means, his mind holds him back, when he lets go, he goes into high drive & completes the task, which is your task... Its not you trying to make him do something he doesnt want...

K9: no one learns this stuff overnite, in fact it took me more than ten years to feel confident enough to talk about drives & nerves without thinking it through. I would be envious of anyone who knew it all in no time...

WP: K9: thats cheating, you seen it done with your dog lol..

LL: K9: I have had the "robot dogs" comment thrown at me many times, it still aggravates me a little but it also tells me how accurate people see their training.. lol..

E: K9: now were thinking, thsi is correct, the fear aggressor initially triggered by my dog goes into defence, after a period of time with no reaction, some ob & guidancem defence drive goes out. Now fear aggressor can look at my dog clear headed, when we see this I may play with my dog, this kicks pack drive into fear aggressor, as he wants to part of that game, I can then either desenstitze or intro them.

K9: that does help, but the main point as far as mine is concerned is that he has no play drive for the other dog, this means he see's them as neutral & this is nice for them as they dont get overwhelmed by big GSD all over them, they have to try & get his attention & he can put them into pack drive fast, so they are chasing him etc etc..

K9": comon class, Im going to be calling on people soon...

M: K9: get a new one that only comes from you, so he see's you chained to the value/success of that toy.

K9: & here is a twist, this is why I allow other say fear aggressive dogs to play with my GSD. Now someone has got to question this based on the other thread.

H K9: having said all of that, spending some time in a drive where the dog feels confident can be excellent therapy. This is why many recommend flyball & agility... The only reason I hesitate is that I cant see how the dogs feel in the environment as Im not there.

H: K9: To use my example from the Info nite the other nite so we are talking real time, not hypos I cant prove, lol. I took the female Dobe, Image, she was a leash puller, I walked her off & she was split between paying attention to her owner, 10 feet away & the feedom of the golf course. We started the leash work & after several minutes, she started to look at me for guidance, she started to really respond to my praise like it meant something to her, by now we had been training about 3 minutes, I slowed her down so the onlookers could see the transformation from pulling like a steam train to walking on a loose leash. I then began the recall, with no bond or pack drive the only reason any dog would come back is for food or to avoid correction. As I had pack drive & didnt bring any food, I was able to recall her 10 / 10 times. I then had to get another dog as it was looking a little sus that I had been training her before lol... So repeated the same with male Dobe, dont remember his name... Slowed him down to about 10 minutes? But this is why training in drive, be it prey, pack or food is so good, because it is accurate & fast. H: K9: yes. Keep in mind that DRIVE is a subconscious reaction to stimuli, usually powered by adrenalin.

H: K9: I have added some more to clarify. H:" K9: the only time that I believe a dog should be encouraged for aggression is when it has nerves solid enough to make decisions under pressure, not be too quick on the trigger.

K9: Pack drive is the desire for emotional contact with the other pack members. I use a fair amount of pack drive to train other peoples dogs, not so much use it to begin training, but recognise it when it comes alive. When I see the dog start to go into pack drive for me, I know that it is gaining respect for me, desires emotional response from me. Its when I see that I have this I move on. It's the secret little reason all these people keep telling me how much their dogs love me... I try not to start off using any motivators such as food or toys until I have pack drive, I get this via consistency, fairness & praise when the dog gets it right. Once I have pack, it makes it easier to share my toys of my food with the dog... in the dogs mind anyway.. Does that make sense to people?

K: K9: in very basic terms some people limit drives to those, many trainers like myself who have spent a long times working in drive recognose the traits of other drives. K: K9: using my eg of guard drive from earlier, its a mix of defence & rank. You have a dog that will bark at people when at home or in your car, but no other time, this is because his rank drive is deminished when his confidence is not there... the defence drive may be there but rank is gone... Fight drive (not fight behaviour) is a mix of prey, defence, experience & nerves all wound into one. Many people use food in what I deem an exchange program, sit & in turn I will give you one piece of food. I make drive with food & this raises adrenalin in the dog, it means the dog "has drive" for the food.

H: K9: fofl, see how easy it is to answer your own questions? lol, thats exactly the reason.

LL: K9: I will wave the topic around in front of you until you vibrate! H: K9: your on the threshold of getting there, this intensirty is good, just the dog is unfocussed. You need to put a lot of movement into the prey item, then if the dog starts to bark, slow down, start reducing movement, this is not what the dog wants, so bark will stop, then start again & as you work up in drive, give a sit command, have the dog sit in drive & imm issue the item... K9: I use, ball on string for exp dog, bite roll, small roll for new dog...

YB: K9: lol, when I said rank issue, I meant with your sisters dog, thats the one he is humping, right? lol. Not you. Yes he will settle down, he has worked out a new trick & will play with it for aq while, its a boy thing. YB: K9: you have to elevate the drive, so it will fly outside. So more intense drive work at home, then start the game & heel him into the front yrad, then drive satisfaction, then down the street until the light goes off that the environment is of no importance, you of course need a turn on command... **************************************** yb: K9: excellent, I can ask a few lol... A: K9": I feel that dogs have drive overlap, but find it hard to be in a negative & positive frame of mind at one time. I believe that guard drive is a mix of defence & rank drives.. A: K9: I would say the focus your dog had in prey stopped him from seeing the other dog as a trigger to rank drive.

K9: yes Erny thats correct... YB: K9: you can start to relax when your dog never shows any interest. YB: K9: yes it will come back to, do not comply & there will be a consequence, but as you can imagine, this will be harder to over come than a dog with no interest in your sisters dog. YB: K9: yes but an easier way is dogs that he will be shown to ignore.

A: K9: in reality he wont, but if he was, there is something a miss with the relationship.

YB: K9: the best trainer in the world sets up everything, he or she is active, not reactive. If you found yourself in thats situation I would correct the dog away & reward for leaving.

YB: K9: turn on the tv, stops most guys, (no not me! lol) You know if you do nothing he will settle down right, he will see that not every dog can be mated & start only reactin on scent (provided this is not a rank issue...) YB: K9: its a known factor that to reduce / extinguish drive, you add a correction.. YB: K9: 1. develop drive on tie out with toy, remove other toys from his daily routine. 3 times a day, 3 minutes a time, 7 days per week, he will be dying for it.. Then remove tie out & tease him with the ball, tug etc, teach him sit in drive down in drive then heel. Then add distraction of the street.

S: K9: dogs dont do everything in drive, he may just enjoy the run.