Steve K9Pro

K9: I cant find the official date, but that the word...

Z: K9: whilst their are restrictions, they are not illegal in Vic, a vet check of your dogs health will see you being able to use one legally. Z: K9: I would recommend that you seek the vets approval required, then you have no need to cover up. I believe that the only state that they are 100% banned is SA.. Then people there hide them, (I suspect)...

R: K9: this is 100% correct, it applies to all members of the board, including me, so I woul like to respond. Powderpuff: K9: You know, when someone uses the term "shock collar" it tells me quite a lot about the motivation of their post, when the very first post on this forum is to jump in on a e collar thread, laugh at those discussing a tool, refer to the tool with slang, I'm placing my money someone without the courage to enter into a professional discussion has just created a new membership to Troll. I hope Im wrong but Im betting not. P: K9: I agree 100%, old collars were shock collars, modern collars known as remote training collars do not have this effect. P: K9: from your description I get a clear picture of what sort of trainer you must be, I cant see anywhere that the dog needs to be subjected to the full intensity . Why would you do that to a dog? This would be clearly missuse resulting in abuse... Please dont troll here, if you have genuine concerns, I suggest you post them... R: K9: the points are far from valid, as they convey an abusive dog trainer. R: K9: & maybe you would be better letting Powder Puff speak for themselves... R: K9: The laws or functions were not added, there was simply the fact that Powder Puff was amused by e collar users... R: K9: well maybe Powder puff may look at their first post as a learning curve, jumping in wth incorrect information & laughing at experienced posters will not get you a handshake, anywhere... Anyone is free to post their thoughts, but I see what has been written as blatent Trolling...

H: K9: I do all of the prey drive development, targetting etc in prey drive & do it myself. There is no aggression in this part of the training. Its like teaching the dog the prey item is the sleeve, not the tug etc.. I use a decoy when I want to add pressure & bring on defence. This is when it gets serious. PJ: K9: starts on the item, finishes on the handler. Pj: K9: not really but could be an indication of stress.

K9: This is an important thing to consider, when these things go off, not just the offenders get frightened, I have seen handlers stiffen & drop the leash when their dog has gone off. You cant do this... Some people talk them selves into a gun, they have all the right reasons they feel, they have justified it to themselves & maybe family, but sometimes when they turn up & hear one fired, or hold one, they change their mind. J: K9: you need confidence before strength, but I would suggest looking at some working, maybe handle one under agitation before you dive in. A: K9: yes, I taught my bitch this before bitework, she would light up in command, drop the leash & she would walk over & sniff... A: K9: its a good way to start this work, I also evaluate the handler in this period. If they get their act to gether with the program, they can move to the next level if they have been slack, we dont move on. P: K9: you have to realise that the body language your dogs are displaying is one of fear, they can run anytime. Or they can bite, but a bite trained dog is also taught how to bite. Dogs that bite in defence have very poor bites, they wouldnt deter anyone with motivation. K9: thats another thing you wont know, & it will change given the amount of pressure the dog is under. Part of training is testing, so you know what will happen. K9: yes its likely. Nekbet K9: I can see your point of trying to convey the seriousness of the matter, however, the training regime your speaking of is how a top level manstopper may be trained for the first 6 - 12 months. Your average personal protection dog does not require any where near this amount of work. The threat determines the level of dog one requires... N: K9: well, that again depends on the level of dog you need. There arent only 2 methods of training, so ob does not always kills drive. N: K9: agreed, if you need a dog trained to the highest level. N: K9: Im strictly against this for new handlers, going through the training with a trainer helps you understand how the dog works & how its best deployed. I agree PPT is far from within the ability of a novicem but that includes handling too. I over the years have trained many low level protection dogs that will fire up on command & cool down too, we didnt need to off leash attacks, body bites & many other aspects, they just wanted a dog that was able to do a fraction more than bark. I think Jinta would be best with a visual deterent to begin though. J: K9: this will depend on her temp, if she has the right temp, she may be able to alert on noises when at home. This may also cause neighbour dramas so each move is to be considered.

A": K9: for me, its about getting pack drive, also, it wasnt about how quick A dog could get used to it, its the results I see over say 50 dogs...

K9: yep shepherds are a little picky, they dont eat the hair & shoes...

K9: the time to see is not the time you need the dogs help, but its the most common time of test lol.. 10 minutes is good response time but it would feel like days if you needed them. I could have most of the guys buried by then lol...

HR": K9: confident, dumb, motivated or stupid, pick any one....

K9: well a lot of the time its based on motivation, crimes based on convenience are less when you have a dog as its less convenient. Someone who has motivation to get you needs to be put down. The higher their motivation, the more pain they will endure to get at you or escape etc. I seen a large fellow from NZ, be hit by a Mal, he was without a shirt & the dog gripped his chest, man boob if you like, he had consumed prolly 8 litrs of alcohol & just said "get this thing off me".

K9: yes perception can be quite the reality. Remember though that this is territory guarding, walk one of those dogs down to the shop & the buidler attacks you, the dog will watch without training.

A: K9: rather than bore you with a complete list of tests, the main test that was failed was the stability time of the dog. Strap halter on, takes the dog too long to get used to it before effective training can begin. I like to start training in pack drive, when the dog is in avoidance, that cant happen. I did allow many dogs plenty of time to settle down, then train other things, but I found that when they felt tension come on from the halter, they just went back into avoidance. Sure it seemed like I was getting the dog to do things, but training wasnt occuring. EG: large dog comes in pulling owner around, I put prong on & if I leave out discussion 3 minutes later they can walk on loose leash.

K9: they actually are less balanced, more weight over the front legs than a Rott, with the jaw structure on a Rott a little better. Its more the smaller gene pool I would be aware of. K9: not by any means, but again, its like if you want a dog to scare people away on looks, a bigger dog will do it, good Mal pretty hard to beat though. K9: there is you need a more stable dog for Police work. One thats a little sharp can be a great PPD. K9: again its perception over reality, any of the breeds you name could do it, but the trainer has their preferences too. With guns, some people prefer revolvers, others semi autos. Each one will get the job done but have different characteristics.

PF: K9: well they dont advertise the prey item job, they make it look like they use them as detectors lol.. I did suspect though that they were drug dogs, with all that funky hair do etc... Specially the one in your avatar...

K9: maybe not enough value on the frisbee, or no consequence for chasing wrong item..

PF: K9: fofl, yes well, small dogs can give a nasty bite, break one of those rotten teeth off in your ankle, & 4 - 6 weeks later, you got a nasty infection there... lol. PF: K9: (prey items)...

PF: K9: I tend to think that the noise of the alarm panics the bad guy, no one will come, but the bad guy leaves anyway... PF: K9: I will have to be careful, but the people that know me fear the dogs more than the people that dont? Fancy that?

K9: well I have seen a few that were prot trained, they werent stunning, they werent very athletic either.. They wouldnt be my choice.. Many people think you need a monster, we have some good lightweight GSDs running about 40 kilos wet, they can climb a 9 ft wall, run at 60 km / h & hit you so fast the thump can be heard 100m away. My male in his prime ran about 45 - 50 kgs, he was a hard hitter, dislocated my shoulder when he hit the sleeve on me mucking around, but he was never as fast as my 42kg bitch.. K9: one of the best alert & bite work dogs a well known trainer in the US had was a Pit, so its possible, just not probable. K9: lol no... people focus on arm bites but the most effective is a leg bite, when a dog has your leg in its mouth, other than the pain of your calf muscle being taken off, your hopping on one foot, arms out, defenseless. the body structure would be ok...

K9: True PF, owning a dog that is trained is a liability, it can have its values, I have two of them & have had 5 at once. But start with a big noise maker & if you desire to , work up from there. These days I need to be shown genuine reason to teach any bitework to any dog, because owning a 45, 50, 60 kg plus manstopper has its pros & cons. But off topic a lil, I do think that the popularity of these type of dogs will dramatically increase over the next 2 - 5 yeras, given our climate..

K9: no dog will naturally protect its owner, but some dogs have better drives more able to deal with it. As far as humans are concerned, Staffys have a high threshold to defence drive, Rottys have a l;ower threshold, so generally speaking, someone kicks your door down & your staffy may not see that as enough stimulation to act, where a Rott would, generally speaking, having dogs run together will be a separet issue all together.

A: K9: the reason I have listed the three collars I believe in is that they are the only ones that passed all of my own personal tests. I have put halters through those tests also, & they didnt favour. The tests I complete are always carried out on a variety of dogs & assessed both for functionability, purpose & results. Tess: K9: yes, however they are a lot more effective.

J: K9: Breeding programs over many years have culled out any of this breed that would aggress against a human. I have tested many up until about 4 years ago when I gave up, I have never seen one Staffy that could be trained in real protection. Having said that, few know this, so simply owning a dog puts you in a less risky position. The bigger the dog the better, but your dog would not protect you. Given your situation, a different breed would be your best option, Rott, GSD etc...

K9: When doing focus work, up until now, you have taught the dog yto go higher into drive & capture the item, now going into high drive will happen anyway, its time to teach the dog that just speed wont do it, focus is required. Now its a matter of focus & control that drive. In bite work, this is where the dog learns to calm down on the bite, develop a full mouth bite & hold calmly. This can be applied to any dog that is doing a retrieve, SchH etc.. Without a calm full mouth grip, the dog becomes mouthy. Here is a pic, the dog has just won the item, he doesnt run away to chew it, or to take away from me, he doesnt have a conflict with me because he knows its my toy, & I let him play with it. The grip is calm, bite deep.

K9: if you get a working line GSD, this IS the method you need to be using to get that dog to its genetic capability... Any other method is like driving a Ferrari with block of wood under gas pedal..

Pete: K9: Hi Pete, welcome to the discussion, but could you tell us who you are agreeing with? The last direction of this thread was those of us pointing out that we didnt like them.. Pete" K9: Pete if I said that I had seen more than 1000 dogs rubbing their nose on the ground, going into a state of avoidance or panick, are you saying that you have seen 1000 dogs show positive interest in them? I might just add here that, sometimes it takes a keen eye to see that a dog is in avoidance & not just happily complying.. From the Black dog link you sent k9: Now some parts from it. K9: define "lots"... No slack is what usually is the result, & like I said earlier, this promotes poor leash handling. K9: this is the description used for prong collars... K9: how do you do that? doesnt say.. trial & error? K9: from the horses mouth... K9: ? that must be an enjoyable walk, not too much slack, learn to rotate your wrist, pay attention or your dog may sustain an injury? I would be a nervous wreck after a trip round the block. Safer transporting C4! lol... From the third link K9: well if its good enough for the Duke... I didnt know e trained dogs though? lol... Im just having some fun Pete, no offence. But maybe you could share with us your method, I think that may help us...