Steve K9Pro

K9: about euthanasia being legal, no that is correct. K9: So this lady has debarked every one of her dogs, all 20 of them, hmmmm thats interesting. But anyway, try doing some research and you will see that I am correct. K9: Unfortunately it is not an exact science, some dogs go through the procedure and no effect takes place, others the tissue grows back or they bark off the scar tissue created in the surgery, others develop breathing problems and some are totally silent. K9: so as most people in suburbia have 3 neighbours within 80 feet, the point of debarking is? lol K9:Seems you travel in circles of people who like to debark dogs... K9: Russian Roulette anyone?

Really? Why is that, Steve? ie what's the dog psychology behind it? K9: The availability of the dog giving warning sounds (growling, whinning, barking) has been removed, so biting is all that is left (is the main theory).

K9: Nuisance barking is probably the greatest driver of neighbour conflict in this and many other countries, so it is essential that it is addressed early. Unfortunately, we have not evolved enough in our society and people still throw sedatives and poisons over their neighbours fences if there is a barking dog problem. We hear of this every month of the year, the rate doubles at the onset of spring when small animals are more prevalent. People who have a dog that barks can suffer badly at the hands of impatient, upset or angry neighbours, and I guess some people who take no action deserve this, but a lot don't. Think of it from the dog owners perspective, they don't want to use a Bark Deterrent on their beloved dog, but they are under pressure, sometimes from councils too, to have this problem silenced fast or lose their dog. It is recommended to always seek help from a behaviourist to look at the root of the problem, and then advise neighbours you are taking action and welcome feedback. Cruelty and Bark Deterrents It is strange when I hear people say Anti Bark collars are cruel, I think we need to know their definition of what is cruel and what is not. If it is cruel to inflict pain on an animal then how would any dog ever be vaccinated, micro chipped or desexed? Many say that surgical De Barking is mutilation, I personally would advise De Barking as a very last course of action. There is the risk of surgery. There is a reasonable chance the barking will not stop If it is successful you have totally silenced the dog and this silence also includes the removal of pain responses. Your dog could be stuck in something screaming but you of course you cant hear. I have seen many dogs report to biting after debarking. But I would advise Debarking long before euthanasia. There are certain laws governing the use of some devices, but these laws aren't created by anyone who owns a barking dog or has to cure one, does this mean though that because they are illegal they are bad? If so, why then is euthanizing a dog 100% legal in every state of Australia?

K9: Ok they may need to put in some more work then, the method you use may have some certain signals or cues they are not giving? K9: You said that, not me lol... K9: I would but call it a safety or emergency line, no need to hang onto it all the time but its there if you need it. Good recalls are conditioned rather than trained, so there must be good conditioning that is consistent to turn a good recall into a great recal. K9: Ok lots of different goals there, for therapy or guide dog, being calm on the leash is the goal, not the goal for sport dog though... K9: well think of splitting up what you want to achieve, are you socialising or exercising? I dont do both at once. Exercising may mean, bike riding, jogging, fetching, swimming, walking, recalls, frisbee, none of which need to have other dogs there. K9: Me too, may be worthwhile to look at the failure rate of dogs they call "reactive".

K9: She probably is testing you, but if other trainers can get her to walk nicely on the leash, there may be something that you need to look at to help you get the same results as them. K9: Yes it would be as some values would be set already. K9: Ok well I look at it this way, you either have a reliable recall or you dont, I dont like the term "pretty reliable", this means to me she comes some times lol. K9: Hmm I would look at what plans you have for her, will she be a pet, sport dog? These things are nice to know before you set too many rules on energy right near you, this can cause you to fall over later if you ever decide to train in drive. K9: Based on my experience with many clients, with dogs that have become aggressive or disobedient, they do take their dog to the park, they allow it to play with other dogs and then become annoyed when the dog wont recall. A few weeks later in that same park, their dog gets attacked by another off leash dog and within a few weeks - months, their dog is displaying aggression too. So I find that impractical. If you dont start by allowing your dogs to play with others, but allowing controlled meetings to set social values low or close to neutral, then later if you go to the park, your dog wont be desperate to play with them, ignoring your recalls and perhaps ending up in harms way.

K9: Beagie can you tell me, are your dogs microchipped?

K9: The dogs level of excitement, which you generate at the inception is the difference between the two

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K9: GG shoot me an email, I would hate to see you miss out over a finance problem, we will sort something out! Money is not the workshop focus

K9: watch me pass this one off... Well the answer is it depends on you! Not you personally but Victorians. We sent out our October Newsletter asking what people in each state would like covered etc and when we get all the answers back, dates will be set.

K9: Sorry to hear that GG 85, I am not sure what the prices are, I am the main presenter but not running the workshop. I can tell you though that the facilities, food and location are top notch, and hopefully the speaker wont eb too bad either

K9: Just on numbers many of the handling places are sold already, only a few left so if you would like to bring your dog and work with it, be quick. There are also some spectator places left. I keep number slightly lower to make sure I can try and work every dog and speak to everyone...

K9: Yep thats what I believe!

K9: There will also be an email being sent out to all our mailing groups on what you would like covered in the Sydney one, also what dates suit the people in Melbourne, Queensland and South Australia for my next visits there. So if your not signed up for our news letter, do that now and you will have some input!

K9: Hi Guys, for costs and details it is best to contact Camp Tailwaggers on [email protected], I know that all the cabins are sold out but they are looking at some alternatives for people who want to stay the whole weekend. The weekend long camp will be based on motivational training to achieve better performance from your dog! Of course there will be quite a bit of Training in Drive, tips and tricks, performance building tips, hendling techniques etc If you have a dog that competes in Obedience, Flyball, Tracking, Agility, Dances With Dogs or any sport there will be some great information for you at this workshop. This is about developing the skills needed to take your dogs performance from good to great! It is being held by Camp Tailwaggers.

K9: Raising your voice can often be seen by the dog as a positive reaction to the barking, your better off walking to teh dog and distracting her, calling her etc than "joining" her. K9: Sometimes, with some dogs, no matter how much your try little things like this crop up and need addressing, so see how she fares when this period moves on, feel free to email me if she doesnt let up with the barking...

K9: This is likely her coming into the first fear period if she has been quite confident prior to this. If it is the first fear period, it will pass and she will not be like this as long as she isnt traumatised in this period. If she was like this or continues to be, it would be worthwhile seeking some help as dogs like this can turn aggressive through fear easily.

K9: no but it would be nice if it were that predictable, the age differs slightly from dog to dog, breed to breed and sex of the pup also has an influence. K9: Yes thats always a good recipe and avoid anything you cant control..

K9: Its not unusual for pups to teethe at this age or bite for that matter. They are learning that biting can make things happen. Look for redening of the gums, if so some chews toys, ice cubes, frozen treats can help...

K9: I agree, it is a crappy video and CM does get bit, a lot. And he also uses this method, a lot. There are some dogs that need to learn certain things and sometimes, very aggressive or out of control dogs need something to stop the practice of life threatening behaviours, so I am not going to bash him for what he has done. I was not there and can’t say what the dog was like off camera, and off camera is where any or all behaviour modification would really occur on that show. Having all that said, I really think giving any advice on how to deal with an aggressive dog over the internet is very unstable ground. I for one think that seeing the dog and completing an evaluation is a necessity in dealing with any aggressive dog. I for one would never internet advise someone to challenge their dog, and air blocking can very easily be seen as a challenge as can Alpha Rolling and poking and shhhht ing. I think people need to come to terms and understand that dog aggression is a Psychological condition; it is rarely a training problem. If someone had a child and their child had a Psychological aggression problem, ideally they should be looking for a referral to a person that can offer Psychological help. I have worked with thousands of aggressive dogs, it would be simple if one technique would solve them all, but what will work with one may get you mauled by another. I guess the concern with CM technique is that it seems to appear on most every episode I have seen. It may be a technique that can produce results with a small % of dogs, it isnt a first choice on any dog, ever. The OP has been given some people to contact, please do that and “Don’t attempt these techniques at home”, lol...

K9: I really dont like to link temperament traits and behaviours to breeds, it is a pretty inaccurate way of working through behaviour problems and also fuels those people who believe in BSL. K9: I am really glad it worked for you, but one dog does not make a one sized fits all solution. It certainly could have turned out very differently and your son could have paid the price, still might down the track. You really dont solve violence with violence, you at times can confirm its effectiveness.

K9: well you could do that but often this type of aggression is increased by barriers and restraint.

K9: I guess I wasnt trying to make it that obvious and keep teh focus on the problem at hand now but yes. These behaviours have been learned and reinforced, I would bet this wont be the last time they see them, with or without Dupree. They may not show up in normal every day life, but say they had a Niece of Nephew stay over that Kuma doesnt know, it wont take 2 weeks for the behaviour to develop again. The development period will become shorter and shorter. A baby being born into the house, a tradesman coming to do work, the dog having to be held to have medication such as ear drops applied, clipping his nails, fitting a collar etc. All of these things could instantly trigger what has been learned over the past 6 weeks...

Thanks K9 - all was rosy until a few weeks in. I think you could be right about the rank issue. K9: No worries your welcome, dogs that have some Rank drive usually dont display this until they have assessed the situation, worked out the rank value of the other party and then they make their move. So it is quite common for them to not display these traits in every day life, but when they do start to display them, it often continues to elevate until they derank the target, often by an attack requiring submission. The problem is that, these traits likely live under the surface of this dog and when something changes, they explode.

K9: The time your spending and the training he is picking up is helpful so well done there. I would stop the leaving the room though I think this is a poorly structured program given your family situation. Again I would contact the behaviourist and ask if the program can be restructured to extinguish the problem another way (I can think of about a dozen ways off the top of my head). K9: Look the e collar itself would not make this worse, it could be helpful and I feel the problems you have I could correct with the e collar very quickly, but, the problems you have listed here are fairly simple problems to correct without the need to go to the expense of an e collar and the training to go with it. Doesnt mean you cant use one, doesnt mean that you cant decide to buy one and go that way, you have to do what is right for you and this might be the simplest way for you. K9: Great stick to those games and if a tooth touches your hand, end the game instantly. K9: I think if I had to get up (up to 5 times so far I think you said) to stop the dog barking at me, I dont think I would want to do that unless I saw it was reducing the behaviour fast (which I guess it isnt as your here looking for help) and I am not 81. Like I said do what is best for you, but I would start by contacting the person you paid to help and seek some follow up, if you find no success or they cannot restructure the program, then by all means shoot me an email and I will see if I can help... :D