Steve K9Pro

K9: the way your doing it, your controlling, limiting/ deminishing your dogs drive... The tie out shows your dog your not the one holding it back, it also teaches the dog that drive peak isnt the answer, & that using your brain to think is. It creates a smart dog... You ordering your dog to stay back lets you do the thinking for the dog....

K9: lol, your not IN Victoria,,,

K9: dont think it is too popular here in Aus, its a hunting drive thing...

Thats a whole nuther report, have to figure that one out...

K9: I just went to my computer for verification of pass / fail temp test for personal protection law enf. Im not good with large numbers but I was almost correct 86.74% of all of the dogs I have seen in the past 8 years, (havent got computer records before that) failed Breed break up Dobe 96.1% GSD 76% Rott 79% Malanois 84% Other breeds combined 98.6% Total dogs in report 3744. There have been quite a few that I havent tested but my gut tells me they wouldnt pass anyway... It takes quite a dog to pass this test.. NB: Last time I ran this report was a year ago, it hasnt changed much..

K9: Aus, it always seems that you glance over every topic & make a comment that is just off centre, maybe a little more research into things before preofessing us with your thoughts...

K9: if you read all 27 pages, then you have the reward... :p K9: see we are already starting with a problem, the positive way to use pack drive is through leadership & that wont slow or deminish prey drive, the negative way to use pack drive is to dominate the animal & that will... K9: Im sure after Myszka showed you her video, thats what you said you do? K9: ok, but guarding isnt done in prey drive... A: my dogs in pack drive & I am alpha!...this seems to achieve good results without disrupting the natural prey drive....so in your experience...am I doing the wrong thing? K9: from what I can see you havent grasped the use of drive yet. Trying to deminish high prey drive will cause fallout, an undesireable result of training... You cant extinguish nature, you need to work with it, or satisfy it some other way or you will lose reliability... K9: if you create to much control around you, it will cost you drive close, up, I call this the circle of control & it kills reliability off leash... K9: there are no corrections as such in prey drive training at this level... K9: yes you are, because I teach the dog to control itself, not me, if I am the controlling factor & I add 30 metres of distance from the dog to me, control is gone, the dog will self reward by chasing prey that is not under your control... K9: this is another mistake, growling is a verbal correction, corrections deminish drive... K9: it is too complicated to explain the problems with what you have said here, but the above is not the way I train a protection dog. I am not sure you know exactly what a manstopper is... K9: yes, & yes. K9: some people like to use different rewards, in other words some pack, or some food as well as prey. The people who dont know think this works, they will find out in due course they have steered off course & it will cost them dearly. The more rewards you offer, the more confusing it is for the dog... The clear headed dog that they could have had will have turned into one that is often confused, & when confused dogs default to genetic behaviour, chase what is in front of them, meaning training & reliability goes out the window... K9: you need to understand that Kavik is talking about a Kelpie, bred more for prey drive than Dobes... You also need to get out of the Breed mentality, thinking one breed is this or that... Its not fact, its fiction. I have tested probably two thousand Dobes in the past 3 years for personal protection abilities, 99% were hopeless. This is not just Dobes, same with GSDs, not as high, but over 75%, much liuke many breeds these days. Being Black & Brown or Black & Gold isnt a guaranteed great dog... K9: this is completely false. K9: I really mean no offence but you have totally miss read what is happening, your dog was reading your body language, thats all.. He couldnt "tell"... K9: dogs dont challenge leaders, they challenge equals...

K9: Ok Im lost already, high threshold means that your dog has low drive, high threshold m,eans it takes a lot of stimulation to trigger the drive... I have only ever trained dogs for man work in prey drive, the defence training was situational... K9: you have just described a dog that had a LOW threshold to defence, a survival most times fear based drive, & that you raised the theshold to defence. This would suggest that this dog was a little sharp or soft in nerve. K9: if he has true, strong prey drive, & has had success at satisfying that drive in the past, strong Leadershop wont get you the results, not what I cal leadership anyway... If he has strong prey drive, then we might say his primary drive is prey, Alpha status has its control in pack drive... You also cant supress the primary drive without giving the dog some form of satisfaction, or it will just end up finding satisfaction elsewhere, thats if the drive is truly high... ************ K9: Im not 100% sure yet.. K9: ok were not, training in line with the natural instincts doesnt produce a dangerous dog, & you dont have to be training for personal protection to train in drive. Most of my work these days is behaviour btw. K9: Ok, not every dog I train, or have trained is to Manstopper levels, I have two of my own that are, they arent in any way dangerous as they wwill not attack without my say so & will stop as soon as I say, no matter what. But try to remember that I have ran 13 training in drive workshops over the last 4 years, only 20% of the attendants were training for any type of protection. The other 80% were pet owners, sport trainers, retriever people, agility, flyball, SAR, trackers etc etc.. Training to use the drive isnt training an out of control dog, its training a highly reliable one... Khoeler did use corrections to subdue / extinguish drive, with not always the best results... K9: Again there is some missing communication here, my 3 yo rides my Manstopper, they do run off leash, & are no risk to anyone, many have seen them can tell you this, however whisper the magic word & its a lil different. I do understand what your talking about though, its very common in fact to lose the sociability of an attack dog. I know when I had many decoys at my place & many dogs, after the work was done & we have a BBQ, my dogs were the only ones that werent crated as the other just wanted to keep working... The next time I have a training in drive workshop, it would benefit you to come along...

.K9: ;) Like I said, every dog... K9: there isnt actually a drive called "protection drive"... I would suggest that unless you have trained these dogs in Protection work, they are operating in defence drive... Here are a 'couple of articles that may explain more about your dogs... Article 1 Article 2... I hope this helps you...

K9: Note that I didnt say yor dog had a UTI (Urinary Tract Infection), I said dogs can urinate for many reasons & gave a few examples. K9: Probably, the last book Will wrote "I think" was in the late 60's? K9: keep in mind that all dogs have a level of pressure at which they will turn & run (avoidance). Every dog, some just higher than others.. K9: hmm what drive would you call this? K9: Same drive as the dog in the example above would you say?

K9: Unfortunately Sunny, it is not as simple as hearing about an action of two & making a judgement about the dogs nerves. When evaluating a dogs nerves, there are many ways the tests are conducted & tmany ways of interpreting the results, & some times you just get a "feel" for it...

K9: Sure but you wont need a package, just a consult.. (1)...

K9: Dogs can urinate for a number of reasons from being submissive to UTI, or even a learned experience.. The dog could have been abused & in the past the abuse always stopped when the dog began to urinate... I cant say as I cant see the dog, your idea of weak or strong nerves may not be mine either... K9: what they were created for was some time ago... Remember a dog that baulks at a new situation isnt getting stronger nerves just because he no longer baulks, the situation, is no longer new... Weak nerves are weak nerves, no amount of training will change the nerves, but it may change the reactions the dog shows..

K9: if you have a dog with a lot of drive the only thing they will sleep on is endorphins from drive satisfaction...

K9: then he needs to be woken up, so he will sleep when you do....

K9: gee sounds like a fun dog lol.... The dog is too driven for the lifestyle your giving it... It finds itself looking for more where ever it can find it... You need a program to relax the dog, then it wont wake up till morning...

K9: The only law Im happy with is in Victoria, use under instruction from a trainer or vet... Not happy with free use nor happy with them being banned... K9: yep thats the Field Pro, its a great collar, I am taking pre orders for them, they should arrive here any day... Hope things improve for you over there Dennis...

K9: If that were true every single breed could be trained in every single discipline... Nerves & Drives are genetic driven experience effected... Breed is not relevant. You obviously havent come accross the right situation in which training & environment will outrule a weak nerved dog as yet. Keep looking, they are everywhere.

K9: the vet is supposed to state that the dog is healthy also, but this is the exact details that is hard to find...

K9: Hey Dennis, good to hear from you, the laws here are a little bit grey ish... What I believe is: QLD no restrictions TAS no restrictions WA No restrictions VIC by use of a trainer or with vets permission... NSW, cant find any legislation but a vets letter has always been the way to use a remote, not sure that is the case any longer. Containment system legal with 1.5 m fence. SA & NT Illegal. Very hard to find much in written form & if I cant find it written I wouldnt bet on it...

K9: There isnt enough information to diagnose if the dog is suffering from Separation Anxiety. What breed, how is the dog sattitude when your leaving, is the dog vocal, does it still eat its meals? SA isnt a simple condition, not all breeds are prone to it either, but there are some grea tips to sort this out.

K9: Tell your boss Steve said its ok! lol

K9: Some more event details are HERE... Including the *Special Event*....

K9: puppies need balance just like people do... Toilet training is about positives & nagatives like anything else. If you get your pup from a breeder who understands imprinting they will have thbe negative all in place.. Here is how it works.. When breeding I used schredded newspapers, I replace the paper every two hours or anytime I see it has been used, yes even once. Rasing the puppy in a clean whelping box is almost essential to having a clean adult dog. This is most important in the development periods from new born until 8 weeks. A new born pup has no sight, little hearing but its nose works just fine, a dirty whelping box teaches the pup that being very close to something that smells like that is normal. If this is imprinted into the pup you will not have the negative of the smell to work in your favour... The positive is a verbal & physical reward from the hanlder, should be the Alpha. The best time to teach your dog an elimination command is starting at 6 weeks. I start then & my pups are at 8 weeks, able to sleep in crate all nite no accidents. Negative of accident is being near smelly poop, which they have never done in their whole life Positive is going where Alpha says is opportunity to earn reward... ** I have recenetly worked with a couple that had a dog with no negative feelings about toileting in its own space. In less than a month they have used a positive only technique I have taught them & reported to me recently zero accidents in house, being left up to 8 hours... Yelling, correcting, rubbing pups nose etc wont help at all... Probably damage the bond at 10 weeks old... There is much to be learned on my development page HERE

K9: I would try to cover a few things at once, I would close the crate off during the day, he can wake uop at 4am as he has slept all day by the sounds of it... Crate is sleeping time at nite only.... He already has the positive association of the crate down pat... Next when you put him to bed, completely cover the crate, people with birds in cages will tell you how important this is to their sleep... If he makes a sound, get up, whatever you do dont let him out (again lol). Move the crate to a place in the house where you wont hear him, leave him there the rest of the night. When you move the crate, dont remove the cover & dont speak to him. The next night start with the crate in the other room. He can earn it back in the den with silence. One other thing, this is being driven by a leadership issue, my dogs would not wake me up at niight as they know it wouldnt get them anywhere. If they wake me up, K9 Force must be under attack....