Steve K9Pro

K9: even when they are neutralised its much the same thing, the higher ranking dog will correct the lower ranking ne just after I do. & this is good at that time, as long as the lower pack mamber isnt a pup thats getting told off twice...

K9: Possibly, or possibly ou created a great bond with her before you attended puppy school which developed her pack drive for you before other dogs... ********************* Socialisation setting the values to zero is nothing knew, no one said it was. ******************** Some prefer to run their pups with older "trained" dogs to learn from them. As the older "trained" dogs wont have the same goal for the puppy as I do, there is room for error... So I prefer to teach everything myself..

K9: You betcha...

K9: & I guess that is easy when just reading it here, as we all know the threads are meant to be a guide only. When I have people bring me a pup or even do my Distance Learning Package (Raising a puppy the right way), they seem to do really well...

K9: sounds like an evil plan... lol..

K9: In a word, no. Your looking at it with too much practicality, like 0 is closer to - 4 for eg... The dog doesnt know that... lol.. The dogs temperament develops like a picture, once the picture is developed it is pretty much bomb proof, I use my male GSD is the decoy for hundreds of aggessive dogs in consults, never changed him one bit... I would not do this for a dog under 2 years old though, picture is not fully develped...

K9: No I dont mind at all... It used to be the program I designed for just working dogs, but in the last 5 years its become just about standard that I recommend for every pup. The environment we have in Australia is such that trying to complete the "generic" solialisation steps is very risky to a pup as there are many aggressive dogs out there. The chances of you creating a positive value is much less than you creating a negative (fearful) value.. Teaching your dog to have a high value for other dogs is like (IMO) growing weeds that you will only have to pull later on if ou want any sort of off leash reliability.

K9: And that is just it, you can set the "values" anwhere you like, depending on your goals.. K9: no dog ever will give you 100% attention all the time because you wont 100% of the time want it or be returning rewards for every bit of attention given, so it becomes a nice balance.. I give give my dog eye contact, she will come to me, I can pat her, when I stop patting her, she leaves me & gets out of my way..

K9: this is just one case your quoting... & you also say... K9: so not sure why it cracks you up? If this dog was raised separate you would not have this problem...

K9: I recommend that pups be raised separate from other dogs, pups raised with other dogs become more bonded to the other dogs than the owner making training mor difficult later on...

K9: difficult question to answer in other than a very long explanation, but the basics are: Often some ob clubs dogs to do certain things to get a certain reward or avoid punishment. They reward the dog NOT going into drive... This often produces a dog that will not go into drive in the close vacinity of te handler, I call this the "12 foot circle of control". This means that the dog is heavily controlled with the realms of the 6ft leash (circle around the handler that is 12 feet in dia.) This makes it very hard or I believe impossible to get the most out of the dog in terms of drive... I also feel that you can inflate the dogs prey drive to its genetic capablility if the dog is trained in drive from very young (I start 6 weeks ol with my own pups, 7.5 weeks with a pup I would buy).. I think some of that capability is lost if you start other programs first, specially those that deal with teaching the dog to focus or be calm first.

K9: yes it is Gods country after all... sure I am willing to do a workshop if there are enough interested. K9: Well if you want to wear boots like mine, they are SWAT.

K9: It is that easy! (when yo know how) K9: you should have just emailed me, unlimited email support with all the private consults I do, even yours in Victorai! lol.. K9: FP is correct, it also creates several problems like the dog will learn to "field". Stand at a distance from you & wait for you to throw he ball... Some dogs jump all over the handler trying to get them to throw the ball when they start focus work..

K9: start with the basic program, he will need to be professionally assessed to see what drives the aggression, then we can design a program to help him...

K9: sure is. "randomisation" is the key to good dog training.. Keep in mind all readers that this is the BASIC starting point to develop a foundation for leadership & training. Once this is established I design the next steps to achieve the desired goals, competion obedience, recall improvement, more leadership, training in drive & self control to name a few...

K9: your welcome, my Triangle of temptation gives a run down on where the positive marker is used, that may help you, or the other option is the Distance Learning Packages that I do, we have one on training in drive. This will cover the use of the motivator, the markers both positive & the no reward marker to help guide the dog, the release command & the understanding of how a re enforcer works with timing... Just make sure you dont throw the toy/tug or ball.. But good luck & let us know how you go?

K9: Thats great to hear, but this also suggests that her nerves arent that bad as when nerves are bad it is very hard to trigger prey drive in a new environment where confidence isnt strong K9: your correct, aversives will only worsen this particular problem... Aversives are used to reduce, control & extinguish drive, I have a rule that says never add pressure to pressure... K9: Yes of course...! K9: No. K9: Mine too! lol.. Suggestions, the marker word should be an integral part of drive training anyway, what it will help is to identify to the dog that it has compeleted the correct move. The problem you have is that you dont own the trigger. You are using fast movement of the ball to "trigger" your dogs prey drive, now when the ball isnt in sight, no trigger = no drive... Correct??? What you need to do is.. Start every training session with the ball out of sight, & with a lot of enthusiasm say a key or trigger word which is said over and over a few times just before presenting the ball & making drive (putting a lot of movement into the ball). What your looking for is the dog to hear the trigger word, & go into drive without seeing the ball. Then complete very short excercise such as sit, then reward, begin to add excercises as you need them to extend the amount of time the dog can remain in drive without needing to sight the ball.. I use the phrase, you ready to work?... The marker word, I use "yes" & its used after every time the dog completes the correct action to mark / re inforce that action, I then like to give a release command such as OK to let the dog know he can now partake in the reward. (this stops the dog snatching at the ball out of opportunity) The marker word, when used in this fashion, will become a secondary motivator which in a short time will help maintain the dogs drive through numerous excercies... Excited use of the word to build dynamic actions such as fast sits drops recalls etc, slow calm stretched out use of the marker for focus excercises such as longer stays that you want the dog to explode at the end of.. When you have good progress, time your training sessions & make sure that you can trigger drive & keep it for 10 - 15% longer than the trial, of course you can re trigger as many times as need be, (by using the trigger word or phrase)... Hows that?

K9: the submission suggests that byour using Alpha pressure, (ascertive body language) to force the sit, this is causing the submission. The TOT is about the dog offering the correct behaviour, not you making it happen. K9: I havent seen your dog, but what I would do is next time he runs off, take the food inside & keep it for the next day... Maybe a bit more hunger will hurry him along. When you also get him positive again, I would randomise the commands you give, it sounds like this started with him getting bored.

K9: The reward tone is very important, but only to a dog that is pack driven & is respectful of the handler... Something you need to be aware of is that, the reward you offer to a dog must be rewarding to the dog...

K9: In the pic supplied, the dog is either eating from the hand of the child or the dog is looking for food there. This in itself is rewarding, dogs learn behaviours in three steps, experiment - gain success - make it a habit. As the dog is going to the child it is in the third stage, it is making it a habit or it already is a habit. By growling your desensitizing your dog to your growl, taking the aversive out of it, this needs to stop or you will have no way to communicate your feelings to your dog. I would recommend that you crate train the dog, this will teach the dog that it can be around the child without interacting with the child & vice versa. If you are not keen on that idea, I would suggest that you teach the dog it must stay in its place when the child is around so again, they can learn interaction skills. The crate is by far the best option as it will prevent the child going to the dog also.

K9: Perhaps I can shed some light for you if I may...? K9: Dogs that have raw prey drive only think about the reward once they have been triggered into that specific drive. By teaching the dog to eliminate the fixed stare, they arent triggered into prey drive & hence dont think about the reward at the end... K9: I can state that Lou's protocol indeed does work & well at that. Some of the benefits are that it doesnt reduce/eliminate prey drive or raise the threshold to prey drive making training in drive easier later on or at least not interfearing with training in drive methods...

K9: I am not subject to bribes, but I will be taking a look at this dog on Sunday...

K9: Your dog at one year old and is most likely going through the "rank & shaping" period of his development. This can be researched on my website HERE. This is a crucial development period in which your dog will steer his path in your pack. You need to take control of your dog now... This isn't done by flexing muscles, the Alpha is a passive pack member that commands respect, not a bully. Not suggesting that you are bullying, but dont try & out mucle your dog, you will only teach the dog that it needs to get stronger to regain its lead position.... You need a dedicated program that will place you in the Alpha position without force..

K9: Thanks for all the kind words guys.. BG is you contact me we can organise everything from the training to accomodation. I am sure we can make your life a whole lot easier...

K9: Teaching the dog to out/give & to take the item or reward is of course a requirement, what I have foudn though is, if the dog is motivated by what it has to retrieve, often problems occur with the out or give as our asking the dog to give up what he has just earned. Often the recall is slow as the dog already has the reward, I know that the dog can find the re throw rewarding too, but many dont do this easily or ever. I use a reward tha I never throw (in most cases), & have the dog retrieve say a dumbell to "pay" for the reward I have... This makes for a fast recall, makes for a sure retrieve, makes for a dog hat is very willing to hand over the dumbell & of course the problem experienced by the OP doesnt occur..