Steve K9Pro

K9: Thought I might throw a few thoughts into this one. K9: And this just may be the way that you conducted the training. something specific with that dog that it may have displayed those behaviors you see, and I accept your other dog doesn't display these signs, but 2 dogs in one household isn't really enough to solidly make an informed decision. I will say though that fall out is real, can certainly happen and still does today, but because it can happen doesn't mean it always will with every dog and every trainer. As for Paul Hutton, I don't know him but he is like many I do know, they have a method that works for them, at a point perhaps in their career that they don't want to start again with something new, and are sick of being bashed by people who say if you correct a dog it will ruin it. I am sure he gets good results with what ever method he uses, but it is fair to say that, dogs have evolved in my short life time and we need to as well. K9: 100% agree, rewards should never be ruled out, I firmly believe rewards are one of the foundations of good behaviour. K9: I think the best trainers have instinct and optimism and can create both of these assets in the dogs they work with. Some may use a treat, some a prong collar, doesn't matter to me which as long as that person is not solely the one or the other due to politics. K9: Thanks Aidan, likewise, I will refer people to other trainers because I believe they can help, "how" they help is not important to me, just that they do, and Aidan does, so the hows, whats and whys are of no real importance to me. I also have been asked to write a book by many including a few serious offers, but just like the article in question, my opinion slowly changes it's slant over time & I feel the book will be outdated by the time it is read. K9: lol very true about Mark and I.

K9: Hey Andrew, send me an email direct on [email protected] please.

oh jeezus K9: yeah I know, it really was unlucky for her...

K9: As some have suggested, get some one on one help with a Trainer or Behaviourist that is experienced in dealing with aggression. Once you have some improvement go back to your club and work without aggression. Some people seem to suggest taking the DIY approach with book in hand, I think this is one way you may work on toilet training, teaching your dog to sit or something similar, but I think it is an insane way of working with aggression at any level. No book will teach you how to recognize what state of mind your dog is in, and for those who believe that emotional states cannot be reinforced, spend some time around dogs, they live on learning through emotional reinforcement. Having that said I don't think if your dog is "going crazy" as you put it and you offer a food treat you will make it any worse, but I guarantee you that you will make it no better either. I do guarantee though that your dog is practicing this behavior and this will make it worse. Without control of your dogs emotions you could easily buy yourself a lot of trouble, I assessed a dog for a dangerous dog declaration last week that was in training and the owner was trying to work with aggression using passers by as decoys. Obviously someone didn't appreciate being a decoy and reported her, the dog was served a Notice of Intent which I am helping her fight. Was she getting anywhere with the rehab? no, but she bought herself more trouble for her efforts. Get help.

K9: JP I rest my case!

K9: "JP" your an IT genius! lol

K9: The tether is the better option for a number of reasons. One I dont like the crate to be seen as confinement or that the dog is being held back from something it wants, I train dogs to choose the crate. Two, you dont tether the dog and leave it, it is never really out of sight. Tethering helps the dog get comfortable being tied out which pays dividends later in life, outside the coffee shop perhaps. Dogs that have never been back tied and have to be back tied later in life, often panic and bounce off and on the line, meaning you have to run back and get them, this is a bad lesson to learn. A lot easier done in the control of your own yard. But the crate will work if those other two elements don't concern you.

K9: yep perfectly fine, as long as the dog is used to that place. K9: Yep fine too! K9: Great! K9: Yep absolutely, the strong benefits are in the dog learning to self control, work for the reward, seek advice from the leader, the bowl side of things doesn't matter really. Good work though!

K9: Thanks guys for all the likers and comments, (except Nek! arrrgghhh! lol) Hope the winners love the gear!

K9: Well I am not sure what you mean but I work with dogs that have attacked people, other dogs and other animals all the time, help people with Dangerous Dog Declarations and the breed really has no importance to me. I wouldn't say that everyone shares my feelings though.

K9: Latest information on Busta HERE

K9: Great work guys!

Breeds we will not work with

Its my understanding that Golden Retriever Rescue is working with the council to help Buster. Might want to give them a call with your offer, they may be in more of a position to accept it? K9: Thanks Dee Lee, was in touch with GRR over the weekend, they are aware of my offer to help.

K9: Some things for everyone to think about... If someone put your dog and a corner and beat it with a stick until it attacked them, would you want your dog put down? This may not have happened but it also may, or there could be 1000 other reasons why this happened that would be reasons for action other than euthanizing the dog. Put your hand up if you have a dog that is incapable of an attack. If your dog is living it IS capable, all dogs are under the right or wrong circumstances. I have offered to complete an assessment on this dog, why? Well there are a number of reasons. 1. This dog has apparently no history of aggression. 2. There are extenuating circumstances (owners fighting in the house) 3. The dog was captured by strangers and led from the house with a simple slip leash and pushed into the council transport without the slightest hint of aggression. (This I did see) 4. I would like to see what is going on with this dog for my own research. 5. I think EVERY dog deserves to have its say, I think a temperament assessment will help do that. The dog may still be euthanized, no one can justify that without a thorough investigation. If I felt it could be rehabilitated I put my hand up to adopt the dog and work with it, as perhaps no one else would. The breed has zero to do with my involvement with this dog, I do the same regularly for other breeds, including many bull breeds, German Shepherds, Rotts etc. Every week I am working with one council case or another to help with Dangerous Dog Declarations etc. A few months ago I worked with a family with a Labrador that attacked a family member, I was able to place the dog back in the original home with a few changes and a lot of work with the family. The dog has been aggression free since then (a few months so far). Will it attack in the next few months or years, no one knows that but as the dog was three years old before it showed any aggression, I guess this just proves that EVERY dog has the potential for this type of behaviour. If you want zero risk, don't own a dog, or a cat, or a car or lawnmower and the list goes on. I am hoping Canterbury Council will call me back and give us all the opportunity of better understanding why these things happen.

K9: Yes by using the back tie this will stop your dog gaining success by releasing on the marker and not the release cue. So have your dog back tied, when you get the dogs attention you say very softy and slowly, "goood". If your dog gets up and runs for the food, you wait, when the dog gets to the end of the line it will fail to get rewarded. Wait a good ten seconds, start the program again. Your dog will get to learn that the marker is not a release

K9: Perhaps give some of the trainers in Victoria that post on DOL a try first? They give their time and this is very generous of them and worth rewarding. I can recommend a number of them that I have personally worked with or referred clients to that have been happy with the results.

K9: It is a common problem when starting to use markers in training that the dog releases on any word it hears. Sometimes it can be helpful to use a slowly released marker like "gooooooood" rather than the abrupt "YES!". Once the dog understands that the release command is "ok" stability comes back in.

K9: Thanks for the kind words and I am glad its helping, it can be great fun with a new puppy. K9: Technically no, no whining is acceptable as it will likely build because it is being reinforced by the release to the food. However, sometimes the whining will also stop once you start moving more forward in the program and the dog knows what to do. Knowing what will buy the food most times stops the dog from becoming frustrated and the whining goes. What I would do is release the moment you have even a break in the whining, this will hopefully expend that time further apart. K9: You may have too much reward pressure on him and he is trying desperately to control himself ( ), so move the food a little further away and also reduce the time for now, 2 seconds of silence perhaps and release. Then when you have that solid increase the time. He needs to increase the calm focus not the time just yet. It works well because it means you have control of all resources / assets and the program ends in reward every time :D

K9: I am not going to take credit for thinking about it either, I experienced it lol. K9: No problems, come back and tell us how you go...

K9: A couple of points I would like to add... All, not some but all dog owners would benefit from training and instruction before the dog develops problem behaviours, we really try here to push that to the breeders we work with to avoid lengthy rehab later on, but people don't seem to believe that they will end up with a problem dog when they are looking at their cute puppy. So by the time it gets out of control, they are on a slippery slope. So yes, agree 2000% to train the dog you want to end up with, not hope for the best is always the best idea. In terms of getting a "positive trainer", I cant see where SkyeGSD mentioned what type of training were doing, I think some people just assume it was a punishment based program. For the record I don't have a single program that is punishment based and I don't believe that a dog can learn effectively without positive reinforcement. I have a number of drive training programs and the idea is training a high end dog with zero physical correction, these programs can also work very well for rehabbing timid and aggressive dogs, but sometimes we don't go this direction first because it may not suit the owner or the dog. Some of my programs involve clicker training, others have communication markers that people understand better, but we never start an out of control dog that is posing a risk to itself, other dogs or its owner with these methods as the dog isn't often engaged and doesn't respond. Using a clicker has an enormous benefit to some rehab programs where the owner needs to remove anxiety from their communications, but I can tell you that we would get at least 20 email inquiries a week from people seeking help and stating "as long as your not a clicker trainer". I often ask them what is wrong with CT and they say it has been shoved down their throat and it didn't work for their dog. It isn't even unusual for these people to end up using a clicker with me once we teach the dog to calm down and engage with the owner, THEN it works and works well. Each situation needs to be assessed on its individual merits, the handler, the problem and the dog, then a direction needs to be chosen to get the dog progressing. The method is basic vehicle I use to help people and their dogs. It isn't all about the method, then dogs then people, I think that is back to front...

K9: Yep sounds great! K9: Some people like to use a separate stay command, some don't. For this program it does not really matter but, I like (especially with pups) to teach the pup to understand how to experiment with behaviours to try and problem solve. By triggering the dog to predict a reward (the food in this case), and then giving no guidance, it does encourage the dog to try and solve this problem. The benefit of this is that in time it helps the pup use focus and thought to solve problems rather than become frustrated and carry out higher end behaviours like barking, jumping etc. Hope that makes sense? K9: In the inception of this program, asking for a long period of focus can make the dog feel like it cant win, reliability and focus is built of more repetition with gradual increases than the application of pressure. So I would be happy with the focus and eye contact you have, work on getting the dog to understand that release word and then removing the back tie. I would like to try then for the sit and then a down for example, then add duration of eye contact by putting the watch command on a verbal cue. K9: No this will only teach the dog it needs to be faster. Your better to use the back tie until you have some reliability, you can then drop the back tie to the ground and step on it if your dog breaks. K9: Yes but in hindsight you removed the back tie too early. K9: Dont put pressure on yourself, take your time, it is fun learning with your pup what works for both of you. K9: I like to have the pup or dog at the stage where it is confident in the program, then I add the children to the mix. My 7 year old loves to run the TOT on my dogs.

K9: Following the cat around most likely isnt done in prey drive, especially as the cat is still around . You may find that your particular dog does not have a lot or any usable prey drive, meaning you would be better developing one of the other drives. K9: I first want to create a motivation system with the dog that teaches the dog to engage with me before I will teach anything, otherwise it can dramatically slow things down.

K9: Lol well for us maybe, but the dog will always think its appropriate. K9: And further to that using various tugs helps stop the dog becoming focused on the tug but more focused on the game. K9: I think it is ideal to train the dog not to trigger off movement when training in drive, so that you can trigger drive with a phrase for example, rather than always having to swing the toy around. K9: Too many variables really, depends on the dogs level of drive, reward history and skill of the handler.

K9: Well dogs must not be that different then I dont have any experience with rats, well none worth sharing but with a dog this method works quite well. They may start totally fixed on one style or type of prey, but when that option is removed, reward pressure creates behaviour plasticity and they will transfer their interest to another.