Steve K9Pro

K9: Must be committed if she has been at it for months with only minimal results...

K9: Perhaps the Ob (which I thought stands for Obedience) club could recommend some course of action, seeing as it seems as though they can say what you cant do...

K9: which puppy is this LL?

K9: I tried rope making, here is one I made earlier....

K9: Knitting, now that a thought, I could get my rocker out & knit away, keep my remote handy in case those pesky dogs need a lil training....

K9: I dont think a reminder of the forum rules once and a while does any harm, good on you there Gillbear! Flowers that are hot right now are the ones in the sun.... God I am good at buying flowers, not much else to do with them...

K9: I could also try tapestry, or hair dressing?

K9: ahh, sure... K9: just diferent colour camos, so you wont see me in the flower beds! K9: I am not willing to give up the pic, so I better just keep training then... I guess your stuck with me... Bu I am sure I would have made quite a florist! :D :D

K9: & now it will be the Triangle of Tulips! K9: I wll be using those for debt collection. K9: Seems I am a bit out of practice... K9: Yes & more news, Erny is going back to be a labourer!

K9: The concept is to pair the dogs success with the Alpha, teach the dog to self control & not use force or stregth to control the dog. When the dog understands the concept, this makes it the groundwork needed to advance with things such as fear tendancies & many other issues, for dogs without issues, its a great way to teach communication & structure the pack...

K9:

K9: Ducky, I can see that you have come to the decision that people here are just out to tell you what to do, or actually what you shouldnt do, but, if you just think for a moment you will see no one here will lose or gain from anything that you do with your dog, so they probably just have your dogs best interest at heart. Protection training is (as others have said) a specialist field. Yes there are many trainers out there training protection that shouldnt be, & dont have the specialist skills, but I no longer refer to them as "protection trainers", rather people who create nervous, vicious, unpredictable & uncontrollable dogs. In the end, no one wins at that game, when they get their "protection dog" home, they are all excited about the prospect that they have more security, through protection, when in reality all they have ended up with is a liability. A dog that fast becomes a pain as any time you have any one come to your home, they become a target for the dog. The dog ends up being a pain & it cant (ethically) be rehomed. On top of all this, take most of these dogs to an area that is not considered the dogs territory & it will most likely run in the face of a real attacker. I am guilty of only scanning through this thread over a bite to eat but have a few thoughts to offer.. D: I have succesfully trained a dog before in bite and sleeve work without reading any books through guestimating, the only problem I had with him was kids breaking into my yard to take my dog to the park to fetch the tennis ball for them when they were playing cricket. K9: I would wonder in whose eyes was this dog successful when kids were breaking in...? Another thing is that, I have worked with (trained) thousands of dogs, I have never trained two that were exactly the same. D: What I did before was start off with a rag with tug of war then move onto similar material towels wrapped up in larger and larger sausages holding it in the air giving a comand when he was going for it and jumping around the place when he grabs it and play tug of war until he looks like he is going to give up then I let it go. K9: This is training in prey drive (by the sounds of it). Which is fine, very basic work. D: The way to make him release... I use the word 'enough' which I used all the time with him and the new dog which basically means whatever you are doing now is annoying me so stop it from licking my face, eating a shoe, not letting go off the tug toy if he still holds on I use the same way you give a dog a tablet push his lips into his mouth doesn't hurt the dog he just knows if he continues biting he will bite his own lips (which they never do) or I just stick a couple of fingers in his mouth if there is a gap and I have never had a dog in 15 years who has bitten them as from a puppy I will always take food from their mouth's when eating then give it back. K9: I would ask you this, why would a dog let go when you say enough? The dog doesnt understand english, so the enough command is paired with an experience that generates avoidance in the dog. I would wonder why the dog would be any kind of protection dog when it can be driven into avoidance with a word? D: Then moved onto the same material towels wrapped around my arm, that was from guesstimation...... If I ever told my dog to attack then someone holding a towel was going to get it taken off them if no one was holding a towel then he would look blankly as I never hid the towel by wearing a jacket as I never wanted to take that step. K9: This means that your training has created an "equipment focussed dog", like a sport dog, & your attacker would need to behave in a certain way to help trigger your dog... D: So my theory is that it is an easy train to get to that level if you use the same material 'toys' that get biggger and bigger over a period of time and to turn it into a true attack dog you use a hidden sleeve so he can not see that he is after a toy but an arm. I haven't done aggression training or guarding training as I want them friendly. K9: I am sure you know an attacker wont be friendly? So how do you feel your dog wil respond when the decoy is now, for the first time, a real threat... Most dogs will knock their handler over when they turn & run into the handlers legs in full avoidance... It appears you have a small amount of targetting & bite development, but believe me when I say that this is not even the tip of the ice berg. If you are just playing games with your dog, as it appears yo are, then I cant see too much harm in what you have said. If you are going to be relying on your dog to protect you, I feel that two problems exist. 1. You will be putting your unprepared dog in the firing line, in which it will most likely be kicked. 2. You would be better focussing on protectng yourself as if your focus is on your dog, & it isnt working, you will be open to attack. Good luck anyway, but at least in this instance, have a rethink or speak to a pro...

K9: start by putting the food under his nose & try it when its just out of his reach..

K9: It isnt so much how you test as it is how you interpret what you see.....

K9: at this point I would keep the pup at hime until FR2 is behind you...

K9: Your dog has probably paired the unpleasantless of the vet to the vet.Yes your dog may be in FP2 but there may be some learned problems there too...

K9: spoke to him via email & worked with a few people that said he was good, thats about all. Have done quite a bit of work with Jane though, when people travel to see me from Qld, she does the follow ups as required for me...

K9: problem you face is that going the wrong way with a dog like this can render them unable to rehabilitated in the future... You just dont get endless shots at this. I would be going with Jane or Grant personally...

K9: well I have never used her lol... But I would recommend Jane Harper in your area...

K9: choose one very qualified & experienced behaviourist, have them design you a program & ask questions until you understand it, then stick to it...

K9: The problem you "see" isnt the real problem, its a result of the real problem... The rea problem is that this dog doesnt see you as the pack leader & or your communication isnt clear... If your keeping this pup, I would suggest seeking some pro help onpack structuring, if you let me know where you are I can mos likely refer you to someone... Let go this could really turn nasty.. K9: very welcome, I see so many problems that developed all by themselves as the owers just werent aware of the periods & what to expect... An ounce of prevention... K9: yes, as I said earlier, it doesnt have to fit right into the calender, but it sure sounds like FP1. K9: totally normal K9: basically just avoid putting him in places where he may get a fright, keep him away from a playing child, water etc etc & dont coddle him... Females always develop quicker than males, she may have bee finished her FP1 when you got her..

K9: By all means, I give this out to my puppy clients, with my version of the NILIF program (its a lot better than the standard NILIF), my Triangle of temptation program & I give them advice on socialisation as per my thread.. That gets them started.. We have a pack with all this info in that some other breeders give out as well, it comes at a small fee... K9: we have people travel from the CC weekly, it really isnt that far & I had a look at your thread & I would really recommend you make the trip...

K9: If I am not that scary, why are you still apologising weeks later for the phone? Who said I was scary anyway? lol... K9: It will stay at Force for now... Just hang on to that fear JJ

K9: to teach anything, you will need to establish a motivator (reward system) for your pup, then there are ways that you can use this with a method like show/place & reward system.. Yes there is a difference, in reality respect comes from discipline which is you setting boundaries for your pup... Consequences can be from time outs to physical corrections..

K9: This is a development calendar that is the result of many puppy growth & development cycles under observation. The purpose of this calendar is to be used as a tool or guide for those raising pups to use to identify temperament changes in their pups during development. The reason for such a calendar is that by knowing certain temperament traits are common in all breeds at certain times, this can allow the owner/handler/trainer to allow for certain changes in the pups temperament at certain times.. One important feature that can be of great value are knowing when the "periods of fear" will be present. These are development periods in pups lives that see the pups' thresholds to negative, often nervous behaviours, lowered. Meaning it takes less stimuli to trigger fear in these periods than would be considered normal for that pup. Meaning, you will see fear in your pup at almost everything... Knowing these periods exist & observing the pup going into these periods has helped me develop training programs & strategies to train & socialize a pup correctly based on what period of temperament growth the pup is in & avoid the pitfalls... It is also very helpful in diagnosing how, when & why behaviour problems begin, for example, a pup that has been challenged in Fear Period one may turn into a very active alert barker, this is because the pup has learned to bark, under a normal amount of stimuli, when the period of fear had reduced the dogs genetic thresholds to fear through a learned experience… It is thought that these periods exist to add some apprehension to what would be a wild dogs hunting pattern, so that they don't feel they are invincible & injured or killed in early hunting episodes. I have posted my version of this Calender here, free for members to use to help raise their pups correctly. It should be read as a guide only, your pup may fall perfectly into these age groups or slightly out of them, it may have severe fear periods or rank periods or quite mild ones, but from my experience, all pups go through each & every one of them at some time to some degree.. The only condition I ask for is that if this is distributed, its done by linking to this page & my contact details are included or my website www.k9force.net. This ensures I can be contacted for any difficulties... Dogs growth cycles in terms of temperament • New born puppy (birth to 2 weeks) Puppies in this period can only communicate by feel, temperature & scent. Things such as bowel & bladder control are not yet within puppies control nor can they control their body temperature. If I was going to purchase a puppy from a breeder, I would be dropping off one of my sweaty t shirts to be left in the whelping box for the pups first 8 weeks of life… Believe it or not, this is when toilet training starts... • Transition from new born to early puppy hood (2 - 3 weeks.) Eyes and ears are open but sight and hearing are limited. Movements are more confident, crawling can begin as soon as 2 weeks. Tail wagging & head movements are beginning to be driven by sound. Good breeders will spend a lot of time with the litter at this time, talking to the pups & touching them… • Awareness Period (3 - 4 weeks.) The puppy is learning that he is a dog and has a great need for a stable environment. It's a great time to cuddle & talk to the pup. Hearing can now be tested as it will be developed & sight as developed also. I like to remove the pups for short periods & spend time with them without the rest of the litter. • Pack skills development period (3 - 8 weeks) This is a crucial time for the puppy to spend with mother & litter mates, interaction skills are learned at this time & various canine behaviours are learned too, such as calming, greeting signals etc. He is now aware of the differences between canine and human societies. • Human Socialization Period (6-12 Weeks) The puppy has a developed brain that can think like an adult dog. This is the best time to interact with the puppy, bring it inside for the night in front of the TV etc. Crate training is possible & should be attempted as early as possible.. He now has the ability to learn respect, simple training steps such as come, sit, stay. We teach the elimination command at 6 week mark so the dog will toilet on command. He can now learn by association. The permanent man-dog bonding begins, we do not use any corrective measures when training puppies at this stage, other than removal of an available reward. My Triangle of Temptation program is perfect for a pp of this age.. See it here...http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101 Confidence building is now possible too. This is where I would begin drive training with a dog that will be used for this type of work… See this thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...95&hl=drive I also outline the rules as soon as the pup gets home, such as where the pup will sleep, eat & toilet & I also set boundaries to some behaviours like play.. • Period of fear 12-16 Weeks The puppy will spook very easily in this period, & frightening experiences can have a lasting effect on the puppy. In this period, we don't allow children to carry or pick up puppies, nor play with them without close supervision. People are told to socialise the hell out of their pups, I dont subscribe to that idea at all, see this thread on my views to socialsiation http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...79&hl=drive We try not to allow the pup in contact with dogs we don't know that are gentle with pups. A puppy subjected to an attack by another dog in this period will most likely suffer from fear aggression its whole life. Things learned by negative association in this period can be permanent. • Rank & shaping (14-18 Weeks) Puppies teethe at this point, this makes them chew & people are good chew toys. They begin to realise the power of their jaw & should be taught bite inhibition (for pets) at this age. They can also start to show signs of dominance, good pack leadership should be exercised now, a large breed dog let go at this point can be quite a handful, yes at 18 weeks.. They can learn the skills they need to dominate you & excercise these skills when they get big & strong enough, it may be funny to watch a 16 week old pup growling at you, not so funny at 16 months & 40 plus kgs.. Keep up with positive training at this point; learning a new behaviour at this stage is easier than breaking a bad habit later. I really train often in this period, putting formality to the work the puppy can do, asking for more focus etc. • Selective deafness? (5-9 Months) It's no surprise to see puppies pretend not to hear your known commands at this age. It's at this age we introduce more formal training including consequences for disobedience. Dogs often chew & destroy things that have your scent on them at this point too, many pups are dumped before 9 months... why? Because they now have strength, they getting bigger, faster & less reactive to a simple "no"… By now they have either been taught to walk on a loose leash or pull on the leash.. • Second Fear Period (8 - 16 Months) As puppies become what is called gangly, long legs due to growth spurts, they seem to become a little weaker in nerve than previously noted. It's strange sounds, new sights that often spook a dog more easily than just a week ago... It's at this time we need to be good leaders, when your dog baulks at a stairway, keep walking at full pace to show your pup all is ok. Coddling him when he shows fear will re enforce that fear & you will have to work to get over it later. More training now is crucial to his behavioural development. • Maturity (1-4 Years) We have so many people with German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Boxers etc that come to us at 2 years old wondering when the puppy will leave this dog? I have seen some dogs that are big pups at 4 years old. If the dog is a pain then it's because you haven't completed the training as suggested earlier, but better late than never. If you allow your large dog to reach maturity without any training, you're in for a hard time, possibly a dangerous one if your dog becomes dominant. You need to buy a mirror, take a look in it & change the person you see to an Alpha Leader.. Dogs approaching maturity need firm handling & discipline which = positive & nagative R ********************************* I am happy to answer any questions about anything in this post.... This article is copyright protected (2007) © and can not be used or distributed without K9 force consent. You are, however, allowed to distribute this link to direct people to this site or our website www.k9force.net Steve Courtney K9 Force Professional Dog Training & Behaviour Consultancy. Nationally Accredited Dog Behaviour Consultant. Nationally Accredited Dog Obedience Trainer. Nationally Accredited Law Enforcement Dog Trainer. Website: www.k9force.net Email: [email protected]