Steve K9Pro

In production, dont have them as yet, got a few made to try, made some adjustments now getting them run off in bigger numbers. There are sizes to suit all collars, covers are washable & dont effect the performance of the collar at all...

Thanks LM & we also have covers being made, by popular demand...

K9: False Labelling imported goods is a Federal offence they can get nasty... They do x ray packages also.

K9: Not yet but I am sure she will, we have been away for a couple of weeks & I think she has too...

K9: In my experience, take the keyboard away from them & they disolve lol.. Its a common problem I know... K9: well what chance did the dog have if he was like that with his wife..? K9: yeah I know, iots too easy to get a dog isnt it... I too am looking foorward to the W/shop, should be a blast... Have some old stuff tried & proven & some new stuff I have been working on.. S

K9: we will also be covering aspects of Multi dog households in terms of pack aggression, dog fights & breaking them up, of course with a lot more. If anyone coming has a specific topic they would like me to touch on, by all means ask on the day or email me before hand & I wll make sure we cover it to some extent.

K9: There isnt a straight forward answer to anything in drive training really, it depends what stage your in... If your developimng drive you want to end with frustration, ie no capture, if your maintaining you end with a capture. If you want to signal work is over you might end with a capture & allow dog t carry item off training field. If you increase frustration too much, this can result in loss of drive...

K9: I havent come accross or heard of a dog yet that didnt benefit from this program. K9: I think you will have nothing but great results with it & the dog you have coming to board will settle very quick into the program. This is extremely simple to execute whilts being quite in depth behind the scenes. If you email me ([email protected]) I will send you the PDF of the program you can give to the lady when she takes her dog back so she can follow it easily. K9: One aspect of the TOT is that it teaches the dog that if he applies more power he will win nothing. This is a important message that dogs need to learn, self control equals success, over the top displays of excitement/pressure on the handler win nothing. It makes for a dog that doesnt try & win by force. K9: Absolutely, but only if the owner continues on with it... K9: certainly feed twice a day, but if you feed when the dogs not hungry, you wont create food drive & some of the reward (the chemical reward of Endorphins associated with drive success) will be lost, ie slowing learning down. Love to hear how you get on..

K9: He is probably in the selective deafness period, have a look at this... http://www.k9force.net/index.html?row2col2=develop.html

It appears to contain no relevant information anyway that isnt readily available...

K9: a little defensive are we? Always find it amazing the courage the keyboard gives some people... Dc: K9: Any solid proof would stand untouched by anything I would have to say though right? Proof is proof... K9: well how do you propose to take all that PM you through weeks of training? Fact is you wont, you obviously want to peddle your false rubbish to those that wouldnt have a clue, & I am sure thats the way you like it. I cant see where I have been rude or any other thing you have claimed I am... I responded to your comments as I thought you were missinformed or had something new to offer, instead its obvious your just someone with a new log in trying to win an old argument that you lost before. But if you think I am those things, hit the report button, its free. I am easy to find, why not come have a chat to me sometime? Then we can see how your forehead will look after you call me a low life face to face...

K9: I think when you add to a public forum, then promise to provide evidence, then come back & give an excuse like this it doesnt say much about the proof you claim to have. K9: being busy myself, I totally udnerstand that, but have these commitments come aliong since you vowed to give us this proof?

K9: I made the comment of "could you link or reference us" in request of any NEW information on Low Stim training, she obviously has none based on her letter...

K9: Are you responding to my earlier comment (see below) K9: If you are you have given another example of high stim training.... From the good Doctors letter though... There is no longer a reason for people to remain misinformed. K9: There never was a good reason... Let me make my opinion perfectly clear: Shock is not training - K9: I agree, no one ever said it was did they? in the vast majority of cases it meets the criteria for abuse. K9: when its high stim training, I agree! In my patient population, dogs who have been 'treated' with shock have a much higher risk of an undesirable outcome (e.g., euthanasia) than dogs not subjected to shock, K9: stats please, without them this is just hype... and I never recommend euthanasia. K9: she just said ...In my patient population, dogs who have been 'treated' with shock have a much higher risk of an undesirable outcome (e.g., euthanasia) than dogs not subjected to shock, In all situations where shock has been used there is some damage done, K9: every single case huh? wow... even if we cannot easily see it. K9: where are the tests done to prove every single situation caused damage then? No pet owner needs to use this technique to achieve their goal. Dogs who cease to exhibit a problem behavior usually also cease to exhibit normal behaviors. The only data available support the idea that shock is neither an effective nor suitable training tool. K9: There is plenty of data available, her eyes are just closed to it... That said, it's time we replaced everyone's personal mythologies and opinions with data and scientific thinking. Such opportunities are now available, but are often not exploited. K9: I agree again, except for the part where she wants to replace everyones opinions.... Why not complete some low stim training tests by an unbiased panel, not someone who obviously was against them when they started...

K9: The truth is that many thousands of dogs have been, & still are being trained with e collars, & the biggest problem the anti e collar folk have is that there is not one genuine case of harm occuring through the use of these collars. Regardless of what diagrams you present, that will still be the number one fact to be considered.

K9: I have provided a link to my website as to why one would use an e collar, but something I wanted to add. When someone has a dog problem, no matter what that problem may be, allowing it to continue is allowing the dog to continue to gain success, which will strengthen the behaviour. The first step to curing this is to stop the behaviour from occuring. Simple steps one might say. But if that behaviour is happening at a distance from the handler, any reaction by the handler only marks that behaviour as attention gaining. Therefore further strengthening the behaviour. EG: Your dog is aggressive toward other dogs. See's a dog & barks lunges etc etc You say stop it, no, raise your voice, pull on the leash etc etc, your adding to the problem. Your dog is barking outside, you walk out & say (insert any comment), the dog just got your attention which rewards the barking. Sure, remain inside, let the dog bark, ignore it, technically this is correct & I suppose you can deal with the destruction order the council issues when it arrives. I think they call it "crossing that bridge when we come to it", or as I call it, lack of planning... You must do whatever it takes to stop the behaviour in its tracks now not procratinate on about whats best for the dog based on internet you tube clips of some clown pretending he is a dog...

K9: Perhaps you would prefer this one "some people train dogs like they fly kites, they let the string out further & further until the string slips out of their hands, then spend the rest of the day chasing an out of control kite"..

K9: Interesting comments. I prefer to show my dogs, the moment I get them, what I expect rather than letting them turn into dogs that run off, would bite quick or become hard nosed. It is sort of like growing weeds just to pull them when you alow them to develop these behaviours. K9: The truth is, most people have no idea how to train dogs, I make it a priority in a consult to explain why dogs do what they do & the majority of people leave quite a bit wiser, however, they dont leave with any more training experience & they still do have the problem of a dog with an undesireable habit. I dont train dogs, I train people to train their dogs. Leaving your dog with me will see me be able to get your dog to do what I want it to do, & I dont need to use an e collar. But, it isnt my dog nor is getting your dog to work for me, and not you, the goal is it? Its about providing a solution to the dog poroblem you have, that may mean to get you results with your dog in the time frame you have you may need advanced tools to bring you up to speed as a leader, to reverse bad habits that have been practiced many times, & in those cases, sometimes, the e collar is the answer.

K9: Just sifting though different comments.. I wonder who taught your dog to run off? That is a learned behaviour you know....

K9: This link to my website may also be of some help. http://www.k9force.net/index.html?row2col2=remotecollar.html

K9: Just wanted to address this from an eariler, post. The Taser possess the power to cross between two posts approx 5 - 6 cm apart. This takes a massive amount of voltage to do. The e collar does not possess any such power. The modern ignition system of a car can produce 60 000 volts quite easily & more, the current though is miniscule, which means that it is harmless even though it is using bthe central nervous system as a path looking for a ground.

K9: Stress levels will also rise if you show the dog a treat & do not give it to him. Stress is an integral part of training, its the level of stress & the way the trainer deals with it that is important. Barking also induces stress in a dog. K9: Perhaps you could link us to this study or reference it for me? I havent seen a study done on low stim training, only high stim training. K9: I have placed remote collars around my neck, arms, legs, chest etc, there is little difference in the feeling or levels required to attain current flow. I would also like to point out that I am nopt a dog, nor am I covered in thick hair, nor does my skin have the same electrical resistance levels as the skin of a dog, & these points are all the relevant differences between human & dog in relation to using a remote trainer. K9: No, this is incorrect, there are many more nerves that are connected to the human hand through the wrist / arm than there are in a dogs neck. If you locate a diagram of a dogs central nervous system you will see that there are very few nerves close to the skin of a dog in the neck. The remote collars also do not disperse electric current into the central nervous system, but rather it uses the skin to transfer a very small amount of electric current across the section of the skin between the two probes (approx 3cm). K9: Not in modern remote devices, the collar has no possibility of ramping up the current past the point indicated on the remote based on higher resistance (poor contact). Poor contact usually results in no operation of the collar at all. Poor contact is not a problem with the tool, but rather the user. K9: I am not sure if your arguing against aversives in general now or e collars? Fear occurs with high levels of stim in comparison to a low level of temperament, & of course it has an effect, on all mamals. The methods I use with the e collars make it possible to train the dog in drive, with the e collar. If the e collar was producing fear, the dog would not go into drive... So the suggestion its producing fear is flawed. DC: BTW the difference between a "shock collar" and an e collar is the number of different levels available, the reliability, the age of manufacture and the copywirter. K9: Perhaps you could show me a manufacturer that promotes electronic collars as shock collars? Electric shock occurs by the passing of current through the body (using the central nervous system). Dictionary definition of electric shock. trauma caused by the passage of electric current through the body (as from contact with high voltage lines or being struck by lightning); usually involves burns and abnormal heart rhythm and unconsciousness a reflex response to the passage of electric current through the body; "subjects received a small electric shock when they made the wrong response"; "electricians get accustomed to occasional shocks" Modern e collars have two probes, the current travels between the two probes, not the central nervous system, so there is no electric shock occuring, hence the term shock collar is an incorrect description of the tool as we know it today.

K9: Any time I hear people pipe up with the term "shock collar" on a forum I suspect an agenda. Its like calling a car a "horseless carriage". For those who think they are a lazy way of training, its a lot easier to be lazy than buying an e collar & training, you could simply not train at lay around, that would be easier? Do e collars make training easier? Yes of course, I think that is supposed to be the goal of an training aid. The collar in question is an anti bark collar. They are designed to cause discomfort in order to reduce/eliminate barking. In many cases dogs nuisance bark when alone, putting their own lives at risk through neighbour complaints. When the council officer leaves you a destruction order, its either silence or dstruction, so I think the no bark collar is a good choice over death. If we were talking about remote training collars, then the training method determines the level used. I have demonstrated my e collar training programs to many hundreds / thousands of people with not one comment on harshness or cruelty. Levels are adjustable & with a little experience, they can produce results that are nothing sort of outstanding in very little time.

K9: Ok lets see if we here at K9 Force can make this happen. We will put our heads down & see what we can do! Thanks Rom

K9: Jane is a very nice lady who also happens to be a very good trainer. I have consulted with many people who have travelled to see me from Qld & when they were back at hme again, I referred them onto Jane to do the follow up work in line with my programs. Jane will not steer you wrong.