Steve K9Pro

K9: Definatley not going anywhere... Except SA, Victoria and Qld to help Huski with her handling

Does that mean you're keeping the same address but getting an upgrade?? That's my bet ;) K9: How much you wanna bet? K9force.net will be no more.

K9: ok here is a hint, log onto k9force.net on the 1st March, if you can... Real hint is K9force is not getting a new web site.

K9: I intend to for sure

K9: Hi Guys & thanks for your interest, as Training in drive is such an indepth topic & I am sure we would cover other topics as well, the workshop will be at least one day. Private consults will likely be on another day, were tied up with some big changes in K9 Force right now, & organising the Adelaide workshop etc, but as soon as we get some spare time, we will be into the set up of this one

K9: I suppose you think it did work, that will be because we differ in what the terms, reliable, proofed, distraction & trained mean. If you show a dog a distraction that triggers drive, & you just keep turning up to that environment, even though you dont let the dog engage the trigger, the dogs frustration for that drive trigger will increase, the distraction will become more distracting not less distracting, thats not from a theoretical point of view, thats from actual fact. K9: I know a guy that thought that he could beat his dog with a stock whip to get it to behave, he just as much you do do today, believed he was right. His dog & everyone around him didnt, thats the key point of difference. K9: No you dont, your well aware of what I am talking about. K9: Rarely used, in the many years I have been here, I have emptied the box less than twice. If I want to say something, I say it. K9: If you check my postings you will see I have said that a number of times. K9: I have never made anything personal, you will have to look elsewhere for that. K9: Hard to miss you on my radar, you hit near every thread here with your "views". I havent abused you at all, it will be clear if I do.

K9: Maybe it would help if you PMd me your "point" rather than PMing others your points about me? K9: How do you know? If responding to the distraction is either physically rewarding or chemically rewarding, it wont stop. K9: If the exercise has been trained previously & the dog park was not outside of the dogs mental capacity to work under, thats fine, it just isnt the place to teach dogs that are distracted by the park. K9: So he has taught you to wait until he is ready to take a break from what he really wants to do. Nice work that is cute. K9: So the dog learns that the first command you gave doesnt need to be complied with, because you will give it something easier to do & the dog can access the reward that way. K9: wrong again.

Are you bringing them down to Adelaide? Maybe it would be best for me to wait until after your seminar and then start again with a proper tug toy K9: I think I will be bringing some, havent thought that far ahead as yet, we have pics etc if you email use can can guide you through the right selection process, or as you said you can see them when I am in SA. Either way suits me.

K9: The minute I meet the pup or dog. K9: Dont enforce any real rules until you have the "rules of engagement" set between you & your pup, then you should have success. Many "good" training programs that create a well behaved dog will teach the dog not to display drive (raise drive thresholds). There is nothing wrong with these programs in most cases either, we use them sometimes here under the right circumstances, just not good for dogs that you want to use natural desire (drive) for in all cases. Sorry lots of disclaimers there (in most cases etc) but you have to these days when every word one says is redirected by some. Training in drive is a natural way of letting the dogs genetics help you achieve your goals, rather than working against them, so it takes a different approach to ensure that we dont deminish that in any way or in any way make the dog feel that drive is not appropriate, if you do that, your one step ahead.

K9: It will be before your eyes, before you know it! Keep your "eyes peeled", not your breath held. lol Wont be long now...

K9: The true answer is that it depends, working with live animals takes some of the prediction ability out but, I always start with one toy & only use that until I have drive built, many times first 4 weeks, sometimes more, sometimes less. Then I make it a point to vary the toys between a number of prey items that I consider to be safe for the dog. I dont like to develop drive with various toys at the start because I have seen a few dogs stop after teh trigger phrase & try & guess which toy is coming, it is a step "I" prefer not to have to train out. Does that make sense? Yes thank you that does make sense! You just confirmed what I thought - that I need to pull my socks up and get onto the people Erny suggested for the tugs and stop just using toys before you come to Adelaide! K9: Just so you know, we stock a full range of tug toys, we just havent got them listed yet, wont be long though.

That worked very well! Dogs were keen to get out and to work. It also showed us the dogs in all their moods... the ones who were anxious in kennels, the ones to whom a change of scenery was THE best thing, the ones who very quickly adapted to the routine... It's a learning thing- the brain is continually seeking stimulation, and so the individual will do whatever it takes to gain that K9: Uh huh, thats my belief too.

K9: Thats a very similar principle yep, how did that work for you?

K9: The true answer is that it depends, working with live animals takes some of the prediction ability out but, I always start with one toy & only use that until I have drive built, many times first 4 weeks, sometimes more, sometimes less. Then I make it a point to vary the toys between a number of prey items that I consider to be safe for the dog. I dont like to develop drive with various toys at the start because I have seen a few dogs stop after teh trigger phrase & try & guess which toy is coming, it is a step "I" prefer not to have to train out. Does that make sense?

K9: How do you measure maximum effort? Does he have a guage? K9: with two dogs... K9: so if you had a competition or working dog, you would have to take them around the block before a competition or job to get them stimulated? Hmm that may not be what everyone thinks is the best idea. The issues arent often about being physically tired either, did anyone say that? K9: For once, I agree with you totally, maybe thats the message you should be spreading. K9: How long is a piece of string. It takes as long as it takes.

K9: It makes it easier on the dog to gain reward by setting an environment that doesnt distract the dog (from reward). So by teaching in a distraction free environment, it makes for less stress on the dog, you know, I do this so I dont ruin soft dogs... K9: What happens then? they arent given the reward I guess. I am sure that works (for you) but I find setting the dog up to win a much fairer system. Especially on soft, easy ruined dogs. K9: Oh Huski I am sure that isnt the case, unless the PM function on this board has been deleted I am sure Corvus has nothing against me. I have never met her, worked with her dog nor has she seen any of my methods or know anything about what i do, why would she want to argue with me? Would not make any sense. K9: Well Eddy & Molly must be suffering pretty bad then lol... K9: Well PMs have to be good for something I guess. K9: lol I cant see that happening. K9: correct, but I think this one was being aimed a little closer than Police departments etc. K9: The first section of my program is to "develop drive", for some dogs that is to build drive yes, for some dogs its to build drive for a certain object, other times its to overcome past training that may hinder drive work now, sometimes it is to allow the handler & dog to learn the steps together. It causes no issues but often cures many regardless of the level of drive the dog starts with.

K9: Yes I am sure you have heard that, but are you talking about MY TID programs or ALL TID programs. In mine yes the dog has other activities restricted for a short period of time whilst drive is being developed. K9: Well that doesnt surprise me, there are many things you dont get or dont want to get. K9: But of course like most things that you try & portray as no good, you havent tried it, so your speaking from a place of theory. Perhaps they would climb the walls or perhaps they would be climbing into the game. K9: In the Images of drive thread, you were asking what drive is & could not identify what a dog in drive looked like so perhaps before telling us how you dont think problems would be caused, you may try & gain a little more experience first.

K9: Hey Melbomb, just checked with the office & your email bounced back, we need to check your email address. Pete the Dog we didnt have your email address on our list. If anyone still doesnt have the infomail, just shoot us an email to be added. [email protected]

K9: Our Distance Packages are text based, but they arent a casual read, there is a lot of work in them, well the Training in drive one is thats for sure. Short of that you can look at my website, new articles will be coming soon to that too.

K9: Hi Guys, if you have added your name to our SA list you should now have an email from us. If you have not got one, please send us one so we can add you to the list. Anyone that would also like more information, please email us on [email protected]

K9: There is a lot more to giving a leash correction than jerking the leash, I think that gets lost in translation at times. I understand why your dog would perform better without corrections Luvdogs, but correcting to vocalisation levels is too hard for any dog. The other consideration is that, dogs reluctantly perform for a correction, they perform well for a correctly used motivator though. Corrections are to deminish behaviours you dont want to see, not train new ones. The attitude of the handler is also paramount to giving an "effective" correction.

K9: when talking to those that are in favour of high correction levels, I always find that when high level corrections are being used, reducing the distraction levels proves better than trying to raise correction levels. I agree that some dogs can "take" a high level correction, that though didn't mean they "needed" a high level correction. I encourage new trainers to stop & consider the distractions around the dog & its level of training before ramping up the correction level / intensity.

K9: The tot is a known confidence builder, so it would be great if we can get this working for you. She will quite happily look at me the rest of the time except in the triangle. K9: As I said video will tell us a lot, she could be submissive when food is between you & her or rank too, more body language is needed to decide. Ither way it is fixable. K9: Ok there are a number of reasons for the tie out but, if she wont approach the food without permission, then lose the tie out for now. As long as your not stopping her from taking the food with verbal or physical pressure.

K9: Yes please do, look forward to them. K9: Ok great lets see some video please.

K9: Thats great news! K9: Ok many times people see a behaviour & may label it incorrectly, whilst lowering if the head & refusing eye contact may be one of submission, it also may be one of dominance, I would love to see a video of this dog if you would email it to me? The TOT is a very easy program on the dogs if carried out correctly, there is no need to stop it, but perhaps we need to look at how it is being carried out. Can you tell me, you mentioned that Were things going well & then dropped off?