Steve K9Pro

K9: You cant or at least shouldnt try and switch off prey drive, it is an instinct that is part of the dogs genotype... You can however communicate that your cats are not a trigger for prey drive, this may be escapating if your not doing anything with the dogs drive, leaving it unguided is a recipe for problem behaviour...

K9: You can and should IMO start this day one with your dog, no matter how young and it can be done anywhere you can create the backtie and feed no problems. I would use the verbal markers to start, then later on when it is taught, if you want to use a clicker, just merge it in, will be easy then. Good luck and post back and let me know how you go.

K9: Well, I still had my SWAT boots on but I was on my tippy toes....

K9: Ahh great to hear from you, the distance doesnt need to be a barrier, just have her email me on [email protected] as soon as possible and we can keep going. K9: Yes I did notice about ten minutes before when Frank walked by he showed avoidance but not when anotehr girl did, I sensed he had an issue with men, so I let out my femine side lol... We were good mates in no time. Look forward to hearing from her...

K9: Who said you werent? lol.. K9: Ok ok! lol discussion has been started! I just opened it on Facebook...

K9: So it will be a couple of days yet lol...

K9: Thanks Guys for all the kind words, it was a great week down in Adelaide for me, just back now and reading all the positive feedback. Your dogs behaviour at the workshop is a real credit to you! Was great to put names to faces too! It was really interesting for me to work with the dogs in private consults and the practical training sessions of the workshop gave me a chance to show you a little of what I can do. Would have loved to follow on Sunday with some more advanced work, especially with Kynan and the black lab, I know a few more hours will really pay with those guys although I must say, Kynans mum has really stepped up with him since the consult only one day before, he has improved so much in so little time I also hope to hear from the lady who owned the black lab so I can keep him on the right track. Finally working with Zuma and Kei was great, 2 of my training in drive Distance Learning Package students, they both made me extremly proud, I am sure everyone will agree! I would also like to thank them for demonstrating a little of the work they have put in. Once I get settled and some work out of the way, I am going to start a discussion on the K9 Pro Facebook page so the attendees from the workshop (and anyone else, everyone welcome) can join in a discussion and we can continue were we left off! You can find us here... Finally some well deserved thanks to all who attended for making it possible for me to, being able to bring my work to Adelaide is great for us as well! Big thanks must go to those who provided the food, it was sensational and plentiful! Also of course last but not least, we all owe thanks to Ness who organised the workshop from idea to implementation! Great work guys! :D :D :D

K9: lol and we can share the winnings! K9: Well the one where Indi has two dogs trying to distract her and your son calling her is GOLD given the ashort time you have been training, I would not be red faced but proud as punch at that one! It Rocks! :cool: :D ;)

K9: lol I knew that was coming... Rumour has it that there is a super video of Indi working in drive against very high distraction...

K9: Hey thanks for the feedback, Indi is doing really well and she looks like she is having a geat time! LOL @ Paddock Bashing... ;)

K9: NB I am travelling from Nsw to SA to run a workshop and private consults. The terms and conditions on purchasing tickets are very clear, I cannot book flights and days off based on hope that people may come, I guarantee there is no professional that does. We have been working with the OP to try resell this ticket for her, she is as I understand it very happy with the process. I can't see though how it has anything to do with you.

K9: Hi Bevo, skipping meals or reducing food is one way to increase food drive, if your dog has a behaviour problem which is fear driven (which your dog may have), I would not recommend missing meals to "pressure" your dog past the fear of the leash. This program certainly can help you but I personally wouldnt use it as a "total" solution. Let me know where you are and I may have someone I can refer you to.

K9: Dog training takes time, you can start by implementing the Triangle of Temptation, this is great for teaching what you need. Another (no time consuming) option is a meal feeder, set it to feed dogs separate when perhaps your eating breakfast or showering. Meal Feeder

K9: good as beating her with a stick would be abuse not training lol. The corrections you are using are not corrections, it is not that the action would not be seen as a correction to some dogs, it just isnt being seen by your dog as training isnt progressing. A correction is something that will reduce the likeliness of the behaviour occuring again, as the behaviour is repetitive, it isnt being corrected. Your stopping could be adding frustration, which will increase the pulling.

K9: Lets also keep in mind that if your dog is stressed, frightened or anxious winding up corrections or supplying constant corrections isnt the way to go, it would just add pressure to an already pressured exprience... I agree though that if you are applying constant corrections to a positively motivated dog without getting results there isnt any point continuing, you must look into why your not getting a decrease in that behaviour.

K9: glad it's sorted out, I know we have a lot of info to send out over the next few weeks.

K9: As mentioned earlier, dogs doing this is common, it seems to me they are competing for an ever changing reward, the next tree, park or car to get in. K9: Head Collars do give additional leverage, they also come with some risk to the dog and I personally dont find them to be a suitable training tool, we dont ever recommend them at K9 Pro, thats not to say that people have not gained results with them. I have done a fair bit of testing in the last few months with some of the No pull harnesses, the test results are not complete just yet and they would never be recommended as a "training tool", but for the people with little skill, timing and co ordination, they can be of benefit. K9: I havent seen your dog but I would guess that he has not been trained under distraction to walk on a loose leash, he knows when it is just you and him but it sounds like distractions may have been just lumped in on a dog that is only in the foundation level of training. So I would be not walking with another dog just in front unless you want to train, then it will be about applying distraction in controlled measures and remaining in control of your dog. K9: No one can really tell you why this is happening withut seeing it happen, depending on his history, social structure etc, he could be quite comfortable and has learned this is the way we do it, or he could be crouching in fear or his breed history could mean he is gentically inclinded to behave this way, say if he was of a herding breed for example. In any case, it sort of sounds like when walking up to meet people, you may be looking at him to see what he is going to do, this isnt ideal as it puts him in the lead position. K9: the concern I guess is that he could certainly develop aggression out of this or bring aggression on himself as other dogs and people may not be too comfortable with his stalking... If you have or can take some video, I would be happy to take a look for you, just email me on [email protected] and we will set it up.

K9: could be, it's a small pic. The comment was really using the ears as an example. Could have said docked tail too I guess.

A: I've got a few issues with this method, firstly the tie out part. In my opinion, to tie a dog and 'tease' it with food is just not on K9: If you look at any method that uses drive be it a tug or food, something similar is used. Some dogs have little interest in food, the teasing is to indentify to them what the distraction is and to put them into a state of high energy in which they need to self control. It is being implied that the food issue elevates the human to alpha status and although this is partially correct, this method is simply not something I consider or condone. K9: It doesn't say anywhere that you have to consider or condone it, but if you read the many that have gained great results from it, perhaps your looking at it from the wrong point of view. It doesnt anywhere say that the food will raise your pack position, but teaching your dog that giving attention to the person when a reward is somewhere else sure helps that. Our dogs from the earliest age are taught to sit and wait for their food. K9: I guess this is done by holding the food where they cannot reach it? then having them sit? The giving them the food? They are released (OK) to eat. Our fast eaters are held longer in the wait position with the food about six feet out front while they remain in a sit position. They watch to us for the release command and we alter it between a verbal OK and a finger snap. All the dogs watch us during preparation or during the feeding process as the 7 shepherds are fed all together and loose in the yard and without incident. None of them have been tied up, fed alone to elicit a food drive behaviour and yet they all work when asked and respect us as alpha. K9: Ok so the only difference "you see" is that tie out and the teasing? I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why the average pet owner feels the need to 'train in drive' mainly because I think most do not fully understand the term. K9: This is a step by step procedure so they dont need to understand any more to get the results, reading through the posts of those that have used it here will show you that. If you prefer to call it training with a remote food reward, thats fine with me... I beleive (and this is my opinion only) that the term is misused by most and that the results from someone believing they are training 'in drive' are in fact not much different than some good old fashioned training we used to do using common sense, years ago. K9: Perhaps that is true, and perhaps it isnt... I've trained in schutzhund, agility, obedience and tracking...all of which need a level of drive to succeed or to motivate a dog to work, however I never have used what is considered to be a specific 'in drive' method as I do not believe that there is really such a thing. Using various exercises to stimulate a dogs problem solving ability perhaps, but calling it 'drive training' is something I would never consider doing. It's simply common sense training. K9: I guess every style of training once you know how to do it would be common sense training but that would mean we would all be doing something different, but calling it the same. I can see problems with that. It is just a descriptive term, I am far from the only one that uses it. I find it such a shame that society has created a group of pet owners that need to be taught to be humans, and therefore superior (alpha) to their pets. I however would not condone this method as there is a fine line between being Alpha and to be honest, driving a dog bonkers. K9: Ok but I dont think I am my program is responsible for that lol, also you said a few paragraphs up said that "and yet they all work when asked and respect us as alpha". Why do they need to see you as the Alpha? I can confirm to you that not one has been driven "bonkers" just yet. Question then, do you really beleive that the control of feeding mannerisms and the focus of a dog to either the food bowl or the human, creates a 'drive' in the dog that will continue after the meal is over? K9: Drive will not but the exercises taught in the Triangle will, dogs are being taught to give attention in the face of distraction, learn self control and then many other OB exercises that do continue on through the dogs life. I have rehabbed many dogs that we use this as the corner stone of self control with great success also. I'm sure this will spark a few flames my way, so be it.... K9: I am not sure why anyone would write a post that they know will start flaming and in case you havent noticed, YOUR flaming this program lol... such a shame that it will happen simply because I disagree with a method. K9: I think the shame is that, if you have thoughts about this method, you could simply ask questions, but instead you form an opinion and then attack the method. I've trained a lot of dogs over the years, all of which have one issue or another. Food aggressives, non food motivated (to the point they would starve themselves as they have no interest in food at all) and yet I can say that on both sides of that pendulum swing, have ended up with excellant working/performing dogs. K9: Ok, so have many here, so? I cannot see anywhere in which I have said "you must use this program or your dogs will not work/perform!" The dogs here know who's boss be it at meal times or any other time, and didn't need to be segregated or tied up/restrained to get to that stage. (flame away) K9: Congratulations, but we dont have a list of the method you have used to critique do we? Perhaps I could watch what you do and find 1000 problems in it, but then your answer would be, it has worked for many dogs. Well I doubt you have owned as many dogs as have benefited from this program, so perhaps that is something to think about before you tell me what doesnt work or what isnt needed. This version of the program is the basic first steps to implementing this in your home, whether it is applied to a rank driven dog or a submissive dog or overly excited dog that knows no rules or limitations, it works for all and it works very well. When the owner has a years of experience or none, it still works. If you went to an aggressive rank dog, stood there with the food bowl held high and ordered the dog to sit, this could turn out very bad for you, this wont happen with my method. It isnt designed to show a dog who is boss, that can add conflict, it is designed to teach dogs and owners very valuable life skills, here are a just few: - Impulse control without physical corrections Understanding that trying to get the food/distraction/temptation with energy applied to the person holding it isnt the way to gain reward Taking your attention off the distraction (food) and giving it to the person is the path to reward Being on a tie out ends in reward It teaches the dog owner and the dog basic marking and release skills It also is set up so the new dog owner wont fail with a dog and the tie out helps this because: - The dog is tied up, it cannot jump on the owner to get the food finally being reinforced for that behaviour. The dog cannot attack the owner as in the case I mentioned above for the rank dog. The dog cannot ignore the owner and just run to the food, resulting in behaviour reinforced that isnt a desirable behaviour. Regardless of what the dog does, physical pressure isnt applied from the owner to the dog or from the dog to the owner. The dog learns to break its own glance from the distraction and give it to the owner, which results in reward. Substitute the food for another "temptation" and we have noted a great improvement in the dogs behaviour around things that were previously highly distractive. As for the issues with teasing the dog, if you have trained Schutzhund, I wonder how this was done without some form of teasing with a toy or by a helper? If you think outside the box, you will see that there is no harm being done here and dont let me tell you, just read the results that others have gained using it. It is on other forums too, same results, I have been prescribing it to my behaviour clients for many years, same results, many breeders and trainers use it too, same results. Those results can be described as, owners happy and rewarding their dogs and using communication, and a dog that is under "self control" and learns new exercises at feeding time and reinforces old ones. One other benefit of this program is that it ensures owners actually train their dogs, every day, at least once, that is a benefit for many dogs and owners. You dont have to like it Angelsun, I see in your avatar that you have a Dobe with cropped ears, many call that mutilation, but you must approve of it to display it? It is your dog and your choice I guess, right? Or maybe you would call it "common sense ear modification" lol. I find it strange though that you have been a member since 2004 and this program was made a sticky in 2006, and you feel now is the time to attack it?

K9: Yep it sure was great, World Class, my view is here

K9: The ticket sales are open to the public now HERE

K9: yep they are sold out, were looking seriously at trying to add some more on the Thursday the 6th. Just have to make some changes here. I am looking forward to coming, I sure will do my best.

K9: Yep thats fine of course, the 48 hours is just to make sure people dont buy tickets and not pay for them or use them and we turn people away whilst trying to contact the original purchaser, as long as we hear from you within 48 hours (which we have they tell me) it is all good and your place is locked in. K9: Yep its all good, and if there are ever any questions, just send them through our email, we will answer any questions. Also if anyone pays via paypal, there are no fee's we absorb those

K9: Yep thats true, tickets for workshop and private consults are on our website to our email list only. This link will go live later on today to general public.

K9: midnight lol