Akayla

If people were questioning my intentions with offlead walking. A)she was highly trained before I got her. B) I continued her training. C) Eventually it was mostly used to round up my mothers flighty dog if it escaped since she was disabled and unable to chase the little bugger. As I said I wouldnt do so with any of my other dogs. While they are reasonably good I wouldnt say to that degree. This old girl could walk through a mob of kangaroos, a flock of birds, children running, balls, cats and was even bitten by other dogs. If she was doing heel work she ignored. If I took my previous GSD offlead she would probably have shot off after most of those! Which is why she was onlead. Im a big believer in effective control. Id rather train a dog who would ignore everything if possible over relying on a lead which can be slipped, broken or dropped by people. I would never allow my dogs to rush people. That needs to be clear. If I cant trust them 100% regardless of stimuli they are onlead. That goes for offlead areas too. If your dog takes off in an offlead area they can still run onto a road etc if they dont recall.

Id rather a dog under effective control unleashed than an out of control onlead. A leash can give people a false sense of security. I had a highly trained dog that my mother would walk offlead. She never broke away. Never so much as sniffed another dog unless told she could. I can say that because she has passed on now. I havent had a dog as reliable since. So I keep them on lead now. All about being a responsible owner. A good heel doesnt mean your dog wont run off. It has to be desensitized. It has to be happy to ignore the whole world. I was rushed by three dogs last weekend. Only one had been offlead. Another thing to consider is how do you react to a charging dog. If you become tense, afraid or jerky you can change the mood of the confrontation. Not that any dog should approach you but maybe food for thought to help your situation. I would never pick up a small dog. It can encourage some dogs to target it. I know why people do it but Ive seen a dog killed over this.

Oh and I got verbally abused as a kid for being cruel and not clipping my poodle. Never mind it was a Puli X.

A vet that looked me straight in the eye and said my GSDs pups (8weeks old) had HD. They could tell. See how the back was sloped. Thats HD. I worked with them and they got one heck of a serve from me. Not the first vet or last to say something similar either.

perhaps you can look at how you fix the behaviour. For example my mum had a beautiful rough collie rescue. Lovely dog but you could tell certain things made him fearful. He wouldnt walk on grass lawn. He would be ok if you actually convinced him to go for a walk and say went across a grass oval but a back lawn would see him refuse. Nothing would get him on that lawn. He would shake and wet himself a little if pushed. We didnt do any amazing training techniques. Just loved him and never pressured him to stand on the lawn. He eventually over came his fear during the years. First by only standing underneath the trampoline and then eventually he felt ok about walking on it. You do just kind of get a feeling about some dogs and this one had many many issues but we didnt have to do anything. I think he just eventually realised he wouldnt get in trouble. If he was nervy or had a fright during a fear period it would have taken alot of work and there would be no guarante he would have improved. Another dog we had we knew for sure had been beaten and her reaction to any threat would be to eat you! So it can certainly vary. Just because a dog is afraid does not equal an abuse victim nor does an abused animal equal a frightened animal.

Personally I like the test. Which is why I had asked my dogs breeders about it and started a big discussion about why the idea had bombed. Dont quote me but I think it was along the lines of IF people started training large numbers of dogs like that there would be a push to put restrictions on ghose dogs and other states had different rules etc. My memory is terrible but what stuck with me was the general anger and upset by breeders that they could not train their dogs in such a traditional manner. I dont think they wanted to make it the test but rather run it so people had the option.

What is wrong with the ORIGINAL test? Oh I forgot, the ANKC don't support it.. There's nothing wrong with it and I'd love for it to be a prerequisite here as it is in Germany - but I don't make the rules. Obviously I meant a better test than what is currently being done It's a shame more members don't have your view Ish to have the numbers to make change. The BH is as good a test as any which is the companion animal test that will certainly weed out unstable dogs and isn't too hard to train for and is the official breed entrance test to qualify for the full regime. Back when I used to show there used to be quite a few breeders who would support it and there was enquiries made. I cant remember exactly what happened but I believe it was politicians that made it quite clear what would happen to those dogs that were trained. Not the gsd people. Thats in my town anyway.

Well said LMS :) It shouldn't matter what group the dog falls under. I have to admit owning WL dogs first I wasn't expecting the temp. I got with my SL bitch. She taught me to see the bigger picture of the GSD. I was one of those people who thought SL's were wrong but i now consider myself better educated. Good breeders breed good dogs. Dogs that are within the standard. That give the breed a good image. That are healthy. That can do the job.

I doubt anyone here would be willing to type out the full history. Not just type but countries in general. Each country has had its own journey. Different genetic issues. Different physical issues and different temperament issues. It's so complicated! The question of how did they get from a to b is not easily answered.

and this is her mum.

Some photos of mine. Terrible stack because this was me learning how to do it :laugh: This ones a pup from me going through a bit of a leggy stage.

Like I said she is a beautiful dog. From your account a great pet right? Is she the ideal type for a German Shepherd dog? That's obviously hotly debated. I was discussing the use of the label "old style" where a dog is presented and people are told this is how GSDs looked and "show people" have wrecked everything. I think of it as not educating people on the real issues. Extremes are never good for a breed. Id like people who may not be hugely knowledgeable on the breed but interested to get a better understanding. So many people ask why and its not nearly as simple as well show people ruined it. IMO no matter the "line" a dog is from it should be within the standard if its going to be bred from. In all aspects. That doesn't take away from how great your dog is. Id also like to point out that the top line does not equal over all soundness. Just like it doesn't equal HD or ED.

What I'm getting at is that a slope is desired within reason. Over angulation or weakness are not desired. Just like non at all is not desired. As i said if the dog looks weak, wobbly in the hocks I would not breed from it.

Changes only happened after the 40s? Ummm sure :laugh: Max Von Stephanitz was trying to cement a type after noticing the huge variation in Shepherd dogs. Obviously even right at the beginning there was huge variation in the breed UNTIL the type really took off. There is still major variation today! He also selected on type. Including adding a shorter stocky stud to breed against the tall Leggy types like above. He also selected for a type. Which included some of the things people are disagreeing with here. It's true he would choose structure over colour etc but only to work towards a look. Including the structure which creates the slope people hate so much. It's highly specific what Max set out. I'd link you to other images just as easily found on Google of the dogs he selected himself which bred away from the look above but I'm on my phone.

Scootaloo no you're right they should be firm and if they are wobbling when they walk that sounds pretty bad. Watching the open dog ring on a hot day while the judge keeps the dogs moving helps show the difference between a well built animal and those who struggle. I remember one show we all basically cheered on the top two. They were such fine animals they just wanted to go and go making it really hard for the judge and of course the handlers :laugh:

See although she is a beautiful dog exactly at what point in time exactly do you think she represents? The original dogs the breed was based on did not have top line like that. Dogs that came later had extreme short legs, or later when they had little depth in chest, or the line that was bred out due to illness? People refer to their dogs as old style but really what they mean it's a gsd with the top line of other breeds. The gsd had always required a slope. The degree of course can be debated although the standard is pretty specific. It's also forgetting there are different parts that going into making the whole. So there can be different reasons why a dog appears sloped. A gsd should not have a back that curves the other way either. Of course people select a pet for what they want and so long as it's sound that's where the story ends. Breeders have much more responsibility. Breeding dogs to not look like a gsd (other than markings) is just as much an extremist thing to do as Roach back. Also calling people dogs Roach backed when they are not is offensive to them i imagine. Look at some real Roach backed dogs and you will be able to see the difference. As I said breeding is far more complicated than " I want the dog to look different, "here I will just put two flat backed dogs together and all will be well". If you want a dipped or complete flat backed dog IMO there are other breeds more suited. In case people are wondering my ideal dog is the non extreme gsd with a good temp. Not flat. Not crazy sloped. I assume it's my responsibility when buying a pup to buy a dog like this as to avoid continuing the extremes. Yes it takes some research but then i would be doing that anyway and not expect to find the perfect pup/breeder straight away.

All I will say is if someone is really interested in this subject do some research. There is some great reading material out there. I usually recommend "the genetic history of the German Shepherd dog". Dogs you have seen does not make up a breed. Do you know how many GSDs there are out there. All slightly different. Even in one litter there can be a huge variation. So long as the breeder you choose selects the right animals to continue the line you are on the right track. I think people often forget just how complicated breeding is. Choosing animals with straight backs does not automatically equal healthy animals. I hate when people pull out the photo of an "old style" shepherd from years ago. I just open the book I mentioned and show them some other examples. Just steer clear of extremists. WL, SL whatever. There are people in each that are not breeding healthy animals. When you choose a breeder the best test is to meet and watch their animals move. Plus I think the right breeder would also take the time to explain the ins and outs.

Possibly :laugh: I did have one mum I took in and she had 3 babies I think. I will send you the info :)

Hall vet does. Infact I had a bit of a tiff with one over enthusiastic vet nurse there because I would not desex one of my pups. I was showing at the time and waiting to see how the pup would turn out. Lots of vets push the desexing thing. Obviously they see all the bad that happens. Increase risk of cancer, bad pregnancies etc. You know what makes a good vet to me. Heart and knowledge. The vet I use gave us his personal number when one of my dogs was nearing the end. He let my mum pay what she could. He knew us and has always sent a card and remembers each aninal even after they are gone. He doesnt bullsh!t us and tells the truth. However he is very good at what he does AND one of few vets that doesnt diagnose by glancing at a pet. Id rather someone who would take the best care of my pet. The idea that there is no other choice and all canberra vets over charge is silly. If people are comfortable to use Jan more power to them. In this case the owner is obviously the one who made a mistake.

Its horrible but given the dog lunges and its a pretty big dog I can understand they removed the threat. How bloody badly though. The dog was close not moving around much. The least they could have done was kill it cleanly or put it out of its misery. Leaving it to die that way... disgusting. They need to be retrained or reassigned if thats their level of skill. The poor man having to watch that. Although I do think it was rediculous the way he was behaving to start with. The dog has clearly paid the price.

They were pretty shocked. They just rang a vet and expected to go in. I never said it was bad only that it stuck with me? I was using it as an example. Something that sums up the situation for me. She is what she is. Its no secret. If people are comfortable with that its alot cheaper. My vet has never held my pets to ransom. Nothing but a lovely bloke who never takes advantage. Exactly how a vet should be.

Jan has always been described as a bush vet in the circles I travel in and I think it suits her. She is very practical. She is the only vet for some people because as others have said she is much cheaper. I also know people who have had terrible experiences with her. I remember when she desexed a friends cat on said friends kitchen bench :laugh: I dont think any ill of Jan and she has been around for years and years and has quite the reputation. I wouldnt recommend her for anything serious personally but she does provide that service. In this case I dont think she can be blamed given the owner did not do what was recommended. Luckily I have a fantastic vet at the other Hall vet. He is awesome.

If the dogs had harassed the neighbour then the dogs owner could be fined. It doesn't sound like that happened though. Just that 4 dogs got in a tiff while unsupervised. As others have said nothing can be done about that as their is no way to know what triggered it. If another dog ran up and attacked another while the owner was walking it on lead that would be different. The owners of the offending dogs have complied and secured their yard. If this happens again it will be on record.

It makes me so angry. I presently have a cat thats been taken. Im waiting/hoping he is scanned for his chip one day and I can get him back. My eldest talks about him constantly. Of course Id take him back! Really its a good reason to keep cats indoors or a secure run that only you can open.

I dont know about this case but I think my bitch smelled a change in the ex and perhaps his strange behaviour made her unsettled. For what ever reason she did not want him mucking around with the cord and when he wouldnt stop she switched to barking, whining and pulling at him. Basically annoyed and got in the way enough he gave up. He didnt actually live here at the time. Another time during an episode he came at me to shove me and she started running up and nipping him. She hasnt done this any other time. I think perhaps they smell the chemical imbalance in someone and become very aggitated by the strange behaviour. So I can see the dog say lunging at the gun or owner and knocking it. It doesnt really matter. The dog reacted for what ever reason and its behaviour saved the owners life.