Akayla

Just a simple point my ex RAAF girl who had all the training was the best family pet. You can get a dog that has this type of training and other than up keep of training you dont have to think about it. Once the dog is trained its not like you have to go out and get into trouble once a week to keep the dog happy Nope Akayla happily sat on our couch snorring away the rest of her days

Ok here is a random question for those in the know. Would you consider a dog to have "fronted up" if say someone came at the dog and owner swinging a bat or whatever - but the dog doesnt stand between the owner and the attacker but circles around behind the attacker and moves in from there?

Thanks again for this opportunity Ooooo K9 Force

So a dog that is never allowed to exercise leadership over a person is expected to take the lead in defensive situation? Dogs that have been socialised from puppyhood never to put teeth on a human are expected to "naturally" take a person on? Unlike past times, we generally socialise our dogs to greet strangers positively, not tear strips off them. We've had plenty of discussion on alpha wolf theory on this forum. Most of those discussions note that the original research that developed the theory was conducted on captive wolves and was fundamentally flawed. None of that theory has ever been tested in an inter species context. Dogs know we ain't dogs. If they do protect us, are we a resource to them? Professional protection dog trainers have said time and again on this forum that people are deluding themselves if they genuinely expect an untrained dog, even of a guarding/protection breed, to step up when required. Those views have been poo pooed by many owners. I'd say this thread proves the pros right. You may get lucky.. but then again.. why put your safety down to luck? Where did I say any of that? Dont put words in my mouth. I have said myself several times that you cant just expect a dog to take care of you. It was you that is using words like NEVER. "Perhaps people might also ponder the irony of all the talk about being "alpha" to your dog but expecting it to step up to protect you when the going gets rough.. isn't pack protection the alpha's job??" - I was mearly responding to this which infact not accurate account of behaviour. A subordinate wolf can take it onto themselves to defend something that is very crucial to their survival. Oh and thats wild wolves not captive bred. I have also pointed out that even in the breeds mentioned even after training most will not make the cut. But in a wolf pack if the Alphas are missing the cahnces of the rest of the pack surviving is alot lower. The will and do react to the threat. I was talking about dogs I was pointing out misinformation.

Not exactly Poodlefan. A wolf pack is complex but an aplha is a resource to the pack and they will defend them and their territory. But again its a complicated issue that would require long discussion.

I think Corvus that people should just be aware that we are on a forum that is just "all talk" - we cant even see the person who is doing the talking. No one should run out and do anything stupid with their dog just because they heard someone talking on here. Nor should they make decisions based on breeds ect. Better to talk to a breeder if they are truelly interested. I just think people should keep that in mind no matter the subject discussed. I think the OP question has been answered. That no matter what the breed you may have a dog that will run, but they have been given some breed names that are more predisposed to being protective. Thanks I have been blessed to have her in my life and I will really miss her when she is gone. Having her certainly puts the others character in perspective and gives me a goal as a breeder. It also has a lot to do with socialisation and training. From personal experience I can say you cant skip out on this bit. Taking your young pup and showing them boats, cars, motor bikes, malls, shops, schools, as many animals as you can manage, equipement EVERYTHING but done in the right way so as a dog they dont fear so much of the world around them. Then the training should be done right and often and in the end you should end up with a dog that is generally laid back and relaxed and can tune out the world around them. However to what degree that can be achieved depends on the individual animal. In the line of defence, protection dogs many would fail. But so long as you have a relaxed dog that you dont have to be afriad to walk and is tuned into you is all you need for a pet. Its good you love your dog any way. With lots of training you may find that your dog will focus alot more on you. Im trying to remember what I was told..... Something along the lines of you cant expect a dog to protect someone they dont really respect or something....Basically in training a dog you form a stronger bond, a higher status and the animal is more likley to want to stand up for you (as a precious object to defend). I dont know maybe one of the other guys that are in that line of work can remember what it is Im trying to say

totally agree with the last two posts. My old girl Akayla is very relaxed - kids harrass her dogs bite her and even if she was off lead she wouldnt blink an eye. But Ive seen her launch into action before - scary is an understatement! She was an ex RAAF dog and she would be the dog I trusted completely, more so than the dogs that havent been trained. She looks to me first before she does anything and will only take things into her own paws if we arent there. An example was when my mum was broken into. Police found a broken back window, a back door with paw prints around the handle, foot prints going in half way, paw prints following and foot print exciting - some blood left behind - but could have been glass as much as anything. Important thing is that Akayla can open doors and who ever it was that shut the door didnt lock it - and the didnt make it past the hallway. Akayla will also do things for my mother without being asked. Like hearding her small disobedient dogs back and not allowing them to run off again. And if mum cries out, again she will open the back door and let herself in. she also brakes her training with kids and will drop the ball rather than place it in the hand as most kids are too scared of her. She wont allow kids to drown or get up too high (her defination of this does not macth mine ). However if I asked her to leave it she would do so. She is what I breed towards temp wise.

If you are refering to me I never said my dog had weak nerve infact I would say the opposite. However Ive had alot of experience with defence dogs myself and I know that just because a dog appears to have strong nerve that doesnt mean they would pass a full series of tests - very few actually do. My bitch is a GSD from a good line but they were not selectively breed fro military work - nor has she recieved training in protection. She has growled and stepped between twice but everyone else backs off so as too her actual nerve Im left unsure. I would like to get her assessed - I intended on having a close friend check her out any way, but it wont likely happen ATM. This is a fantastic oppertunity to get an unbiased opinion on her workability. Ive had experience with ex defence dogs and know what I will be handling/training if she does show potential. Thanks Jeff Jones

Well she has done so in a real situation in the past but as you said - how far will they go, will they protect you no matter what? Most likely not Im guessing (with Lakota) since stats are like 4% or something LOL. I do have a bitch that would but shes an ex RAAF dog + shes 10 so a bit old for that sort of thing Still she is rather protective of me and bubs so Id be interested to see how far she makes it ETA: PM'd :D

Although I know there are people out there that may know more than you - cause there is always a bigger fish! I agree that most dogs would not pass a test. It takes a LONG time to specifically train a dog to be "reliable". Can I volunteer even knowing that my bitch most likely wont pass all tests??? Id just love to do it and see it done What a learning experience that would be!!! Rex sounds like he has a dog that may also show some nerve?

Yes exactly the only way you can be 100% sure your dog will stand tall in this situation is to go and get yourself a personal protection dog. They come to you as an adult already trained but you have to continue the training (or pay some one to help you) and you need to have a good understanding of dog behaviour or as people said you could be liable for damages. However you have a intelligent breed who most likely has just never been in that situation before and the "flight" took over from "fight". Normal - for amy breed. When you get your next dog make sure you socailise it with as much as possible like loud noises, people yelling ect. Its not a garantee but it will cut down the chance the dog will just outright freak and do a runner In the mean time I think teaching your dog to ignore yelling and throwing of arms and bark on command is a good one

I have heard the risks K9 thanks They are just another reason I am so reluctant to go ahead. DAS said they would give the OK if I want too. So I can and I already have had several referals for vets within travelling distance. What Im asking is if anyone has any other ideas I can try?

No but DAS asked me if I wanted to as they heard them while inspecting mine. I dont want to as the neighbours on that side have been really good. Even when Lakota got in with their dogs a couple of times they would just bring her back, untill I found where she was getting out. They are realy nice people with old dogs and they dont bother me. Just shows how biased this guy is though cause the dogs bark through the night sometimes. Where Lakota is brought inside at 5pm

True. Im definately leaning that way its terribly stressful. Basically this neighbour doesnt like the fact that his view into my yard is blocked by the dog run and has said to everyone that he will not stop untill it has been completely removed. We have planted some trees aswell so I cant wait to hear the contsant complaints about that! The neighbour has spoken to DAS, Housing (I live in a housing house ) and mediation. All have said I shouldnt worry as well as land and planning giving me the once over to make sure the structure is exceptable. I get phone calls at least one a month, sometimes every two days as these places have to follow up each complaint. And since they have all told him that he has no right to see into my yard he complains about the barking or the smell or the holes Lakota dug in her run. People would remember me talking about this its been an on going war. So every time she starts barking exessively I start to get really aggitated knowing the phone calls will start. Plus bringing her in (which is the only thing that stops it) just makes it worse I think. The more she is locked up the more energy she has to burn! At least the guys at DAS are nice. They know me and Lakota of by heart now I always feel bad if I have to call them about something. "Yeah its me again, the one with the water crazy dog". Its so stupid because the run is for the benifiet of the neighbours. Its a secure run (which DAS insisted she be in when Im not home because she got out once and well lets say a GSD walking down the street is a little scarey to some) and it also should reduce her barking. When she is out she will fence fight and the noise is 10 times worse! I have had the fences fixed and concrete laid ect but at the end of the day I need that run to reduce noise! Lakota is a good dog, she will stop and lay down when I ask her to, through the window. But inbetween the barking is aweful. Nothing compared to the dogs next door but still not exceptable.

Ok so I have a 4 year old German Shepherd bitch. She is barking all the time when out. Previously we didnt have a problem in our old house even though there were other dogs on two sides of the fence. Now we live in a new place where I have constructed a run on the side furthest away from next door neighbours as they have three dogs that bark ALOT! My bitch started barking so we put up the run. Blocked her view. Put a sanpit, home alone toy and some chews in with her. She gets on rotation kongs, everlasting balls, chew toys, hidden food, bones ect. She is walked at least once a day and also a half an hour of training and romping. We have placed a citronella collar and a cold spray collar (both pretty much the same) for around 4 month period, it did nothing. I have tried the distraction method for about a year also (where you sort of ask them to do something like sit ect and get their attention on you and reward when they are ignoring what ever distraction - I used a down as it seemed to keep her the most quiet). We cant use a E-collar as they are illegal here in the ACT. Basically I have a neigbour that reports us every time she barks so I stress alot when she starts getting carried away. I can bring her in but she will bark as soon as she is out and despite all of the above. So she ends up locked up most of the day. Although she is inside with me mostly so not TOO bad. She is barking at the nieghbours, their house and their dogs. Even the sound of the dogs moving around is enough to set her off, but these dogs bark ALL day so its easy for her to get started. She has escaped into their yard a few times and actually just plays with them. She even did that when we had two other GSDs for her to play with here. She has met the people too and they have done the treat on nuetral ground thing. Im sorry this is along post but wanted to give everyone a good idea of what I have done ect. I am now at the point where Im thinking debarking but since Im a single mum I would actually prefer her to warn me and deter people. But I will do it if I have too. Does anyone have any ideas that I could try? Anyoe tried something and been succesful?

Im very happy with JIm from Hall vet (the big one on the corner)

Sounds like someone let the dogs out. I have a lovely big padlock on my run now because of a simillar prank. I would do the same if I were you as you said it would be terrible if the others had to go. Good luck

It usually isnt till about two years of age that problems arise as this is when they hit maturity and they like to know where they stand. I have dogs that get along great and I know dogs that tried to kill each other and some that succeeded in doing so. Its about the personality of the dogs (are they too simillar) and will they compete. How they behave away from home is not how they will behave on their own turf. But the recommended action is to introduce on nuetral and then let them bring home their new friend. If you think about the belief that it is natural for females to compete with other females, males with males. Then the reason for the age gap is because when one hits that "maturity point" and they try to assert their dominance a pup will likely submit to its elder. Also they are not competing for the same amount of food, exercise, toys ect. Personally I dont think it matters what line of thinking you follow as IMO any dog can take a dislike to another or fall out with them. My advice would be that if the worse does happen be ready to create seperate runs and divide your time. If you dont think you could handle this (and remember that leaves you with rehoming the dog) then dont get the same sex and age. Again I think it comes down to the individual dogs, plenty of breeders do it and so do I.

You can add mine if you like - Ligerwolve - German Shepherds ;)

Its good fun, I made a complete idiot of myself the first time ( I had the guy jumping on one foot instead of picking up a cusion ) But it really teaches you about timing. Good luck

If you are worried about timing get a clicker and play with a human friend. Without telling them what you want them to do, use the clicker to direct them. EG. You want them to pick up the cusion off the chair, so when they are moving towards it you click ect. No speaking or gesturing. Its fun especially with a group and you will learn really quick about timing. Trust me

Just thought I would also add that I find the clicker to be very good for dogs that are sensitive to tone of voice like anxious dogs. I had a bitch once that would become excited by any words spoken, no matter the tone (still attention) and would become a wriggling mess. I switched to a clicker with her and she picked it up much faster. I think the clicker can be useful to remove verbal communication in a dog that has a certain association towards it. But in the end I think we all try out new things all the time and eventually something works for us and the dog.

What a great idea, when I am not so busy with baby I will do up a "how to" for pet portraits. I do these fairly often so I will start taking photo's! Its a lot easier than you think.

Had simillar problem with my shepherds, save as they got older they would also steal the bucket. We use a nice solid concrete bucket outside now, but to stop digging???? What about filling the bucket with rocks too. So its to heavy to tip and if you get the right shaped rocks, not as easy to dig? BC though, she may be too smart

Sorry if I repeat anything said, just got to excited and skipped to the end. I own and breed GSD's, and presently have two sisters and guess what, am also 9 months pregnant and ready to drop. LOL how funny is that! ;) Anyway, I would EVERY single time they jump up, turn slightly and use your correction word (no or what ever) so that the dog falls away from you. Ask them to do something else like sit (not to far to bend) and reward that behaviour instead. What they are doing is fairly normal behaviour by the sounds of it. I think it would be best for you to do some training with them, as it doesnt sound like your partner is having any trouble. Its you they have to learn to behave for, though you both need to agree no jumping up ever and be consistant. Taking on two sister is probably the hardest thing, I hope you are going to desex them, they may fight at sexual maturity. Also have you started playing baby sounds ect to them yet? That may help fot when the baby comes.