Akayla

Nor would a wold seriously hurt its on pup for jumping on it. Dogs can and do recognise a person that is different - sick, injured and young. They may not think the same as us but they arent dumb either. A dog doesnt just "react" without being in serious pain. If the dog was that unwell why was it in the public place? Dog can also use a soft bite especially when given a fright.

This is true Souff. But the dog was in a public place, the dog was not one of those dogs and last but not least the dog wasnt under control. I can understand people taking their pets to work but I think when we walk out that front door with a four legged friends we have to take care. Im sure these people love their dog and if the child fell on the dog I hope it isnt destroyed but the dog has reacted. If you can say my dog has bitten a child (who was very small and only fell onto the dog) do you not think its a good idea to take precautions and muzzle it when you are out in an enviroment where unpredictable things can happen? Ill say it again is it worth the risk to your dogs life?

As I have said before it happened to my girl and no she didnt react other than to get up and step back from the child.

I think if you loved your dog you wouldnt risk it happening twice. Regardless of whether the child is emotionally hurt or not the dog reacted, is likely to do it again in simillar scenario's and will be PTSd then. Question is would you risk your dog and another child? Also as said the dog should not have been there unattended.

At the end of the day its just my opinion but yes I see a BIG difference between a 10-15kg child falling on a dog that size and a child thats say forced a pencil into a dogs ear. Perhaps say if the dog suffered quite a bit of pain - which a physical would show. All the same again if MY dog chomped down hard enough (and I am aware just how much incrediable control a dog has over its bite) to leave that damage over a bump from a child I would muzzle it in public end of story. Heck if a child did do something aweful to my dog (Id be fuming) Id still think to muzzle it in public because its even MORE likely to react negatively to children. Ive seen kids fall on dogs, Ive seen kids fall into dogs, ive seen kids try hug dogs, Ive seen kids accidently bump them when swinging a bag over their shoulder ect. All of these things are part of the dogs existing in society unless you are happy to protect the dog from these situations. These owners did not. Believe it or not I think past actions say alot about how someone will treat that animal in future. I think it should be something considered when it came to a decision. This is just my opinion, Im not making the decision. I dont know all the facts of what happened and I wasnt there to witness it. Im just going off of descriptions of others. I understand where you are coming from but from what I understand of this case I just dont agree. I think as an owner you would WANT your dog to be safe and muzzle it and keep it properly secured. That way you dont put the dog in another situation like this where it may lose its life.

If a child goes out of their way to hurt said dog that is different but if a child that weighs very little especially in regards to such a large breed accidently falls or trips then yes I have to say Id draw a hard line. If my 2 year old fell on my GSD and she bit her hard enough that she would need surgery/stitches yes Id muzzle her around people under 18. I already have a yard especially for her and take other precautions. I take being an owner of a dog like this in public very seriously. I think they are wonderful family pets but if I want my breed to not get banned then I am extra careful. Having a 2 year old around means that I know Lakota wouldnt react to her simply tripping on her - its has happened before even with supervision, but even before then I have alot of children she was socialised with and was confident (not that Id put her in that position intentionally) she would simply get away from the child. But I would never leave her out of my control with kids around. Either I have her with me or she is in the run. I myself have had a heavy penalty just for my dog getting out so I know how upsetting it can be but at the end of the day you have to do what is best for everyone including the dog - by not putting them in a position where this could happen a second time and the dog destroyed. Make no mistake if this dog is let out AFTER its proven the dog did bite and something just as innocent happened it would be destroyed. As an owner I wouldnt want that to happen. Also keep in mind that this didnt happen in a home or a park it was in a bussiness where the public enters. The owners showed a lack of judgement here and I would not be inclined to assume they wont make another lapse again. If there was a DD they could keep the dog, show responsiblity and follow rules so as this wont happen again.

There are several reasons but given the size of a two year old, the fact the dog reacted aggressively, the fact that the dog would be out in public again where who knows what could happen. If it were my dog and it did bite a child (and caused injury) Id want it muzzled ect anyway.

Thats a sad situation then but I still think the dog should have a DD against them especially if the dog had wondered over to the child.

I have a dog that on occassion has taken a dislike to other dogs. She is generally fine with everyone. Just because one dog can get along with this dog is no garantee of behaviour. A dog can and in my experience oftne do attack silently. The noise comes after they hit their target. A dog t hat is growling is giving warning that it doesnt really want to attack but will if pushed. A dog that leaps silently is intent of causing harm. I agree that both are free from blame - neither really has the ability to be held responsible. Id be happy with a DD put on this animal. I believe that they can appeal if they think the child was not injured by the dog and the rangers would have to provide some proof that it was infact the dog. According to the friend of the family the child was right next to the mother. That would mean that the dog had approached. The dog shouldnt have been there though when the owner cant offer control of that animal. Sad for them but they are liable if this dog caused harm to this child.

Allergies? liability?

If someone said to you that the dog was friendly and you kept your child next to you and away from the dog at all times why wouldnt you think it was safe? I dont neccessarily think the dog should be PTSd but I do believe that the owner is liable for damages/emotional distress. But I also understand that a dog like that can be rehomed and even if it isnt they need to really look into why it happened. Was it a behavioural thing or is a symptom of something else. It would need to be fully investigated.

Let look at this a different way if this dog had been outside and the owner didnt have it under effective control and it did this to a child (even one running around) what would people say? What if it was your dog instead of a child? How many people here scream for blood and have 0 tolerance for dogs offlead? This dog may have been inside but it wasnt under effective control and it WAS in a public place. Im sure the owner is quite upset but they owned this dog, allowed it freedom and kept it in a public place. They are liable. End of story. Personally although I would think it stupid to not keep you child away from a strange dog, it wouldnt matter to me. If you are going to take your dog into a place like that it is YOUR responsibility! The only thing that could make the child partly responsible is if it hurt the dog.

Some of you will remember the Mal I saw through a work video. He was HUGE but so lovely and gentle. When he went towards someone he would have "soft" eyes and ears low gnetle wagging tail head down a touch. Perfect manners but near food he would at the last second freeze and strike with absolute ferocity (sp?). It was chilling to watch. A dog can give all the happy signals and then freeze for but a split second and attack. Its so quick even if you were looking right at the dog unless you had been exposed to dogs like this again and again and react on instinc you would not have time for your brain to process. That is why the dog shouldnt be unsupervised by the owner and able to approach strangers especially around food. People dont have to be dog friendly and they dont have to know the signs that well. If they are in a public work place they should have the right to be safe.

I had a gut feeling that what had happened - dont ask me why. What a terrible thing to happen. I know from experience how quick a dog can go from hello Im soft and friendly look to full on attack. I dont blame the family especially from what has been written here. The owners had a dog, assured people it was safe, gave it a bone, didnt react when it walked over ect. They need to take responsibilty of their dog. Hoping that the child is ok and that the rest of the family heal too. Feel sorry for the dog aswell.

Personally I just feel that yes the guy was an idiot for not being ontop of the kid (which is actually hard at times), but this was a place of business if you are going to take a dog there you are liable in my books. You couldnt leave something that was unsafe lying on the floor with no effort to protect your customers and not expect to be liable when tragedy strikes. I have a 2 and a half yr old and although I never leave her alone or unsupervised I know how quickly she can escape even from a 5 point harness. The father may have not been aware that a dog would be there and wasnt prepared to deal with it. Maybe he was a typical dad and a little "relaxed" about watching the kid. Either way terrible but sounds like the owner of the shop is liable to me. Poor dog.

Big assumption not always proven in reality. I speak from experience. Sometimes the dog is going to lunge because it wants to attack anyway. Too late to find that out when the dog has yours in its mouth. And sometimes it might just save your dogs life. Let me tell you, if a dog is coming hard at you straining on the end of a lead and its big enough to get your dog in its mouth, you tend to do what you think is best to prevent an attack. I've moved out of range of some dogs to have te owner change direction to bring them in on mine.. you know, the "he just wants to say hi" brigade. When this "friendly" dog is walking stiffly with a fixed hard stare and is pilar erect, I don't take them at their word. If the dog is coming, it already knows your dog is there - you won't draw attention to it by getting it out of initial attack range. I'll take a few bites if it means my dog survives but fortunately few DA dogs are HA. They have to get past my boot anyway. I think the "picking up your small dog makes it dominant" theory is a crock of shite. Most small dogs don't have death wishes and its an owners responsiblility to defend their dog isn't it? 3 out of 3 attacks on my dogs over the years have been GSDs. Most poodle people are dead wary of them.. something in poodle body language doesn't sit well with GSDs so don't be offended if poodle owners avoid you - sometimes their actions are based on bitter experience. I didnt say always I said sometimes. I mean it as information for people to consider. I also didnt say it makes the dog dominant but a higher value item. Ive also seen a little dog have it neck broken becuase the owner went to pick up the dog - the big dog only "switched on" to the little dog when the owner went for it. My point is that each case needs to be seen individually. If you pick up your dog every time when a large dog approaches with out "seeing" the other dog you may have a problem. Not that it isnt the other person responsibility to make sure their dog is safe but it would be a bit too late then. Lakota has known poodles and hasnt had a problem. I also dont get offended if people avoid me so long as they let me get on with my walk too. ETA: Vehs

This is a bit OT but the problem with picking up your small dog is that only are you drawing attention to the dog as a higher prize but you also increase the risk to yourself of getting bitten. Eg as a large unknown dog walks past on the same path the little old lady picks up their little dog. The large unknown dog lunges at her and dog because she drew attention to her dog. If she hadnt of panicked and kept walking the dog would have don the same. Sometimes picking up your small dog isnt the best thing for anyone. It can as others have said have negative effects on the other dog over time. BUt having said that I have no issue with people of any kind avoiding me and my GSD. I just dont. But if they expect me to move or go out of my way when my dog is no threat then I start getting annoyed. A little old lady picking up her dog and crossing the street - no problem. A little old lady abusing me and insisting I cross over while picking up her dog and speaking in a high pitch that is bound to get my dog excited - not happy Jan.

Awwwww look at those sad puppy eyes! He must be so upset to be "coned up". The mind boggles. But I must admit I go weak on my knees when I spot a spider --- freaks me out. Teddies are fine even if they go to 250kg. I used to volunteer in the zoo back home and I was perfectly fine with working alongside huge animals (pumas, tigers, rhinos, giraffes)..but when a spider attaches itself to my clothes I go crazy. That's phobia. Same but then its the small things that will get you in the end isnt it! Out of all the big scarey animals my top ones to be scared of - otters when you clean out the pool, the swan, the Kangaroo and the koalas at feeding time I have lots of people get scared of Lakota but from all back grounds. It really doesnt matter where they came from they still cross the road because GSDs have that stigma that they are viscious. However I never have to ove out the way - people literally go as far from me as they can, right across the road and in the opposite direction. It only annoys me say when you go to an offleash area and they go there and complain cause dogs approach them. I did have a friend come over from korea and she really wanted to meet my dog seeing as she had never met one up close before but when she ran away from my cat I decided Lakota might just be a bit over whelming. She was shocked when I showed her with my hand just how big Lakota was . I did take her to the city to look at some animals and she was just amazed at the wildlife that was right there in the city. Although she was terrified of things she did really want to get to kow and understand them better, it was just dealing with that gut instinc to run as far and as fast as possible!

Ummm as far as I know some havent been done yet since the person and trainer have to agree on a date time ect.

Awww you guys beat me - I was going to say anti terrorist type dogs (always sounds weird when you say that ) They say the way to tell the difference (this is just hearsay) is that a AT dog doesnt have a release word like the normal Police/defence dogs. They basically have to be torn off. That what Ive heard anyway Anyone seen that vid with the GSD that runs straight up the front of a van, onto a roof to get a guy (training of course). Its just awesome watching this HUGE dog from inside the van and then over head as it seems to just run straight up no problems! Looks at Lakota - I think we need to go for another run Lakota neither of us could even make it to the top of the van ;) Ive always thought it would be a great job to be a dog handler - problem is convincing other people I can manage the dogs No one wants to let the under 5 foot lady take the 60kg dog? Whats with that

Oh good - I just sent a kid to time out, wouldnt want to have to do it to some one else I told you, you should hire me Troy

Well I am on mum mode trying to juggle all the kids at the moment That makes complete sense then and I fairly sure of what I expect her to do. Funny you also nailed it on the head as to why she would do it.

No ffence to anyone but I think a couple of people on here need to cool it. I would like to see some good conversation out of this not silly he said she said. Also it doesnt matter who started the derogatory tone, it should end. Anyone want to answer the question I posted?

Yup, she was a bit unsure when when first brought her inside and let her explore. She prefered to sit in mums fishpond best It must have been a bit strange for her. The guys at the airport where we picked her up couldnt stop laughing when we rocked up at the base with our club sport Oh well she is such a spoilt girl now and she has proven time and again to be invaluable. Even though it seems like such a small thing but mum cant chase after her dogs due to injury but she knows if they get away Akayla will get them back. She wasnt trained to do that but I think she is smart enough to have figured to extend her training into other areas. Then again from her behaviour with kids maybe we are just lucky and got one with a gold personality. Either way I know my mum is safe because Akayla is watching over her Even if she is quite over weight ATM and as I said happily snorring away on the couch