Annabel

Annabel I don't want to alarm you but the selective quotes above are exactly what I didn't want to hear. As far as I know, pain behavior is usually very purposeful. The thing which distinguishes canine dementia from other diagnoses is the aimless purposelessness of the behaviorr and the apparent forgetfulness. Sadly, my Mac's growling and barking into space was a key diagnostic feature. Some dogs also lose their ability to problem solve eg they get themselves into a corner and can't get themselves out again. My Mac also has perfect bloods - so nothing there to explain the changes.

In this forum there's a thread entitled doggie dementia - suggest you read it as in it is some really good discussion in it. In that thread, Corvus suggested I contact deerhoundowner by pm who has been studying canine dementia for sometime and has a diagnostic tool on her website - strongly suggest you look at this. Lastly you need a vet who is a good observer, listener and diagnostician - lucky for me this wasn't a problem - mind you I made it easy for her with a detailed diary of observations and occurrences - so suggest you do that too. It becomes much clearer if you keep dated objective notes.

Having said all that, I must say that 6 is pretty young for this I think - but not unheard of. If it is dementia then I really feel for you as you've been incredibly unlucky for it to strike so young. But the good news is as you can see in the dementia thread that it is manageable.

So good luck, all fingers and paws crossed for you here - and will be very interested to see how you get on. :)

Hey lovely, that's ok, I'm already alarmed. :-/

Thanks for that... yeah the voice thing totally freaked me out the other night.

I will read the thread and keep a close eye on it. I'm not going to head back to the vet until I have video and something more concrete. I truly don't think there's any pain... it's just all so random.

My first thought was the start of epilepsy. Is the pacing done in the same places? My dog wore tracks in the lawn from constant pacing. There were other signs too which only fitted once we witnessed a proper fit. Moments of spacing out etc are also signs.

Becks, thanks, I'll keep that in mind. The pacing is generally in the lounge... so you may have a valid point and I'll put this on our list to watch for and ask the vet to rule it in our out.

This week, my husband bought an article home from the paper which was talking about a huge increase in depression in dogs due to the poor weather - rain and lack of sunshine.

With this in mind, I've spoken to the kids and we are all having a 'make Emma more happy' effort in case that's what it is. She's getting a very structured day of training, fun, strokes, grooming and love from everyone.

This will rule out any anxiety and depression issues.

Thanks all for your really helpful advice and concern.

x

Hi Annabelle,

Sorry to say, but she sounds like she is in some sort of pain to me. I very recently had one of mine doing very similar to this and she had a pinched nerve or a disc issue in her neck/shoulder and was extremely uncomfortable - at her worst I thought I was going to have to say goodbye to her as had never seen a dog in that much pain before She would pace, she would lie in the most bizaare places, didn't want to be with us or with the other dogs, was extremely reluctant to eat (and I am sure you know this, but food is very important to a GSP!) and she would whine and cry for no apparent reason - standing or lying, it didn't matter. All sorts of abnormal behaviours!

I would recommend a good check over by a good chiro vet or performance dog vet - she may need x-rays even. My girl was treated with a course of steroids, anti-inflams, and valium to calm her down as well as regular chiro's, stretching and very gentle exercise only. She is as good as gold now, although if she is silly she has flair ups (and she is 13) - it also took a good couple of months to get her sorted out.

And btw - I think some over zealous pulling on her collar/lead by my husband when out walking one day, is all that it took to trigger the problem my dog had (most likely there was already an undetected problem though). Was there any sort of incident that occurred whilst your parents had her? Is she fully weight bearing on all her legs when standing? My girl started off with only a very slight weight transference off the front leg that was affected, so you have to pay really close attention as they are excellent at masking their pain and discomfort from you.

Hi, thanks GSP... The vet seemed to clear her of any pain. He gave her a pretty good working over. There's been no incident that I know of, but who knows. My parents are not dog people. They think they are but they're not. She's fully weight bearing... I've run my hands over her whole body (which I do pretty much daily anyway) and she seems to be fine... The only thing I can see is that she's put a little weight on which I put down to my broken leg situation - she's not getting quite as much exercise as she was but she's being walked and run extensively by the rest of the family, plus off leash stuff at the dog park.

I did her morning tricks with her today and she was leaping and sitting just like she does normally... full of beans.

I think I'll go back to the vet and ask for xrays but I'll do the video of her pacing and take that too. It's really worrying.

Incidentally, involuntary urination like that or even the opposite, can be caused by pelvic pain and discomfort also. I've seen it in a puppy that had severe sciatica which was affecting the nerves in the urinary tract and thus it appeared that the puppy had a constant UTI, when in fact, she was just in a lot of pain as her pelvis was not aligned correctly and the pain from the sciatica and the pelvis was affecting her urinary system. Had her chiro'd and this sorted that problem out.

Similarly, I've had another old dog who was having some incontinence issues and he had some sort of lower back and pelvic involvement and a good chiro session has sorted him out for the moment.

It can be worth getting all of these things checked out. Unfortunately, it does cost a little bit however, but worth it to make them comfortable and happy again :)

I don't mind spending the money as long as it's worth it... It's just repeated trips to the vet where he draws a blank are a waste of time and are not getting me or Emma anywhere. Em only had the one accident and we think that was because she didn't go out in the morning but we're not sure. It hasn't happened again.

More weird stuff... walking to the door, pawing it, walking to other door, pawing at it... then I take her out and she just stands in the garden like she's forgotten why she's there. I call her name and she kinda snaps out of it and seems ok but then wants to go back in. I'm monitoring her very closely outside to make sure her her urinary function etc is working fine and it seems to be. Totally normal.

My first thoughts were something neurological or something vision related. But in all honesty I don't know these are just the thoughts that came from our descriptions.

I like the idea of the video as that will give a vet a full picture and also trying to see someone who can do a very thorough check. Has she had bloods done? Has she seen an opthalmologist? When my dog went blind my vet knew that she was on the way to being blind (she had cataracts) but didn't realise it was to the extent diagnosed by the opthalmologist - the vets we usually see in practices can't be experts at everything! Sometimes it is good to see a specialist if you have a suspicion something is wrong.

She had bloods done - everything totally clear, the vet checked her eyes and said they were perfect. Her eyes seem to be functioning just fine if her skink hunting is anything to go by!

Yesterday evening, my hub and I were talking and I raised my voice a tone or two to say something funny and Em ran in barking, looking around for a stranger. She didn't recognize it was my voice at all.

That was pretty worrying. That and random barking at the slightest sound.

Thanks so much for all your suggestions folks... I'll perhaps go to another vet I know locally who might have a different approach.

It sounds as if she is unwell...- write down EVERYTHING.

VIDEO her staring /pacing (don't talk to her..just observe/record.

and maybe see another vet, or take to a University Teaching clinic/hospital?

Best of luck with it ....

Ok, I'll do that, thanks, that hadn't occurred to do a video. She's all bouncy at the vet of course. The vet and her love each other.

When I do tricks with her, it's like the old Emma, but when she's not being stimulated by us, she 'drifts'

A lot of what you mention sound like symptoms of anxiety.

Ok Febeez, that's better than doggy alzheimers, but why on earth would she be exhibiting anxiety? There's nothing happening here that would have this effect! I'm completely stumped.

Do you think she is depressed and missing your parents?

Have you seen them since you got back from your trip?

I doubt she'd be remotely missing them as they didn't walk her... Depressed... could be but I don't know why... she has loads of exercise, fun, games and love.

Oh I forgot to add:

Grass eating ALL THE TIME... (which worries me that she's feeling unwell)

An accident where she peed all over the floor last week. Hasn't happened again though.

Hi. I have a 6 yr old female GSP.

For the last two months, she has been exhibiting some really odd behaviour which I thought might have been because my parents looked after her for a week whilst we were away. They obviously fed her treats, fed her from the table and didn't walk her enough. Except that that was now two months ago and I thought I had ironed out those wrong behaviours. Thanks, parents.

The behaviours are:

Pacing about the house constantly... walking 6 paces one way, returning to walk 6 paces the other... repetitively.

She stands at the window whining at nothing.

Last night she went to the hallway and stared at my older daughter's bedroom door for about 20 minutes... (I actually left her to see how long she'd do it for because I was curious) She was completely motionless whilst she did it.

I put her food down and make her wait... she just walks off... She actually comes to eat when we do, which ya know, that's fine, but why change after 6 years?

She has a real 'hang dog' look...

Sometimes she appears to be in a trance.

A door banged the other day and it totally freaked her out. She now hates the laundry door and won't go near it. It's surreal.

So I've taken her to our vet who can find absolutely nothing wrong with her... but something is up. I know it is, but I can't afford to keep going back and forth to the vet like this without some idea of what to look for. (I'm currently not working after breaking my leg very badly so trip after trip is kind of mad)

Has anyone experience of anything like this at all? Any advice?

If I didn't know better, I'd say she she has early alzheimers. I know dogs can get this... right?

I think my dog's deaf.

:laugh:

Nada.

That's funny.

Congrats on your baby by the way.

Cheers GSD. I'll check that out too.

Yeah it wasn't great to find it. And I had to pay her. She said my dog must have pooped in between walks. Couldn't believe it really but unless you've got CCTV, how can you prove it?

Thanks fiveplus, I'll have a look at that.

I am away for a weekend soon and looking for a dog sitter for Em.

Anyone got any recommendations? The last one I employed was meant to to walk Em twice a day and feed her. When I got back, I went into my basement and found a whole week of dog poop and wee down there. Didn't look like she'd even taken her for the walks.

I'm in the BM's, NSW.

There's a kennel here and they have a sign up which says 'NO INSPECTIONS'.

They just don't allow them. Can anyone tell me why that would be?

I'm sorry, I can't help but I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

Well I'm glad it amused someone.

I told him I'd pay for the replacement.. and yes, the RTA hear the 'The dog ate my car' excuse quite often apparently. :lol:

New plates on order. And one for mine too.

Maybe there's a plot. The RTA is producing plates containing a secret component that dogs like to chew. So they can do roaring trade in replacement plates.

I'm glad everything's come out well.

Meat flavoured number plates. I can see a market there....

Nothing will get to it now. Even if she wants to lick the dew off it, she won't scratch it

.

ooh- you are such a good mummy- covers make SUCH a great RIIIPPPPING sound when clawed/chewd/pulled What great new toy!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

O!

:( :o ;)

You might try asking here in the US emigration forum of an Expat board... they are in the know.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=57

Also an Aus forum there for info on bringing dog into country ...

Post a pic of the damge and destructo dog please...

Here she is. Emma the wonder dog...

Look into my eyes... not around my eyes... look deep now...

Who, me?!?

Em with her best buddy ever in the world.

I'll try to get a close up of the chilli smeared, chewed number plate later...

oh Annabel i completely understand where you are here!!!

Ours wasnt a dog (because we only got one yesterday lol)

but a cat....he has his pride of joy alfa romeo in the garage...and he "accidently" locked our cat in the garage overnight...the next day i was frantic looking for the cat and heard meowing from the garage...and saw her ontop of his car and scratches all over the paintwork!! i rang "touchupguys" and he didnt get a chance to notice it..they polished out the scratches in no time.

then a couple of weeks later..he did it again...and she scratched once again!! they try and blame the animals...but i told him he should be more careful where the cat is and make sure she is not in the garage!!!

I hope he gets over it quickly x

OMG! A cat? And an Alfa....? Why do we have these nice things eh? I only buy cheap sunglasses now after my daughter who was 18 months at the time, used my hyper expensive Bolle glasses to make a fun noise on the fire guard,.... which had this cheese grater effect on my specs. Children/animals... who'd have them?

He's ok about it actually. A new one is on the way. I have, however, run out to Kmart and got this big cover for it with a fastening to stop access.. .we only have the car port you see.... Nothing will get to it now. Even if she wants to lick the dew off it, she won't scratch it.

Mwahahahahahahah. My dog is smart... but I am smarter... (I think)

Those electronic containment systems may NOT work if a dog is intent on chasing something, or is scared and running I would never rely on one, I don't think. Maybe get a run made ? that way she is absolutely safe from outside harm.and cannot seek and destroy

There is heaps of info on here about runs.. even for rental properties...

Yeah, that's why I'm a little cautious. But we have moved to a new property and the good thing is, that it's off the main road and down a side road so she can't see the cars going past. It's only the crawling cars she takes on though. They really get her going... But she's not scared or running.. or intent on the chasing... It's only when she sees the cars that she gets all hyped up.

The garden is an ok size... and I want Ems to be able to interact with the kids. They play with her a lot and she with them... so the freedom of running in the yard would be ideal... but the containment system seems like the cheaper option...

Can I hire one to see if it would work?

So Emma still has her nautiness happening then .... she's an adult isn't she? 3 or 4 years or age by now.....

I don't remember if you were or had seen a trainer for some 1:1 time but maybe this is the trigger for that to happen ..... maybe contact Steve at K9Pro for a couple of sessions?

(oh and yes we need photos of the dog most definitely! )

Ah, yes you know Emma. She is naughty... but I don't want to put a human behaviour onto a dog... but it's the only one I can think of. God love her, she's just divine. I got her at 8 months from the pound... she had a day left before they put her down and when I got her she was INSANE!!!

She destroyed whole rooms, walls, doors, electrical equipment... she was so poorly with viruses too... and it took 18 months of solid training to get her out of the anxiety issues she was having.

So now she sits, drops onto her belly, she's full of beans, stands on command, waits for her food until I say she can eat. She's affectionate, non aggressive, loves little fluffy white dogs and children...

EDITED TO ADD EMPHASIS:

I went to see Steve for a session. I don't know if we didn't gel or whether there was miscommunication between the both of us - that's what it felt like to me and to me only.

I followed the programme religiously but for Emma, it really didn't work for her but I know he has a HUGE success with other dogs and it was here that he was recommended to me but for Emma, not all the methods worked for her no matter how many hours I put in, apart from Triangle of temptation - which she is brilliant at - surreally, yet she doesn't seem to be food driven at all... and of course, walking to heel, for a while...

I was a single parent at the time with no money whatsoever, living off Centrelink, abusive ex husband making life hell, so I just couldn't afford dog containment that Steve was recommending and I couldn't afford my internet which was out for weeks much to my embarrassment and only just afforded the session with him for Emma in the first place!... As a result, the communication from my side was probably flawed on email, and not at the required frequency, though in the end, this didn't make any difference to the response Emma had to the training in my opinion. For her, it just didn't work and she needed a different method. Different dogs respond to different things... different people... different methods. STeve was the very first trainer I'd taken Ems to and so it was an interesting experience for me and for her. It was a good start for us personally.

But it was ABSOLUTELY worth going because he explained how her brain works... and why she was chasing cars down etc.. and he got her to walk to heel, which was one of the main reasons I went to him, because you know what it's like when your arm is coming out of the socket, or maybe you don't... but mine was. The Martingale collar worked for a bit but then she got foxy with it and she was so used to it, no matter how snug it was on her, she still pulled.

Please don't tell me I was doing something wrong because I followed every instruction and googled every web page. We didn't leave the garden unless she stopped pulling but she just didn't care if it felt squeezy or not. This is the dog who's gone through every restraint possible and foxed them all... the halti - had it worked out in a morning. Harness... pointless...pincer collar... oh sure I'll behave whilst it's on, and when you take it away... mwahahahahahaha! - that was done by another trainer. She doesn't care about pulling and discomfort... she just wants to be ahead.

So now I have gone back to the basic training with a new trainer once again who has different methods which seem to be working for Emma. We don't leave the garden until she's calm... and as soon as she starts to pull the tiniest bit, I turn around and we walk back. As soon as I turn, I have wonder dog back, who heels beautifully like some gorgeous show hound because she's desperate to go on her walk... and we turn back and bingo, she starts to pull. I counted... 18 times last walk we turned around and around. She can do it... she proves it every time I turn her around.... We go in circles... Eventually, towards the end of the walk, her will is weak (Use the Force, Luke) and she walks by my side so well. It's like she gives in eventually. At first it was like 30 -40 times turning around on a walk... now we're down to 18...

The new trainer is just using a different method... it's interesting and it seems to be working, slowly... but like Steve at K9 explained to me, dog behaviours are like a balloon with air escaping and you get one behaviour plugged and another leak starts... hence the number plate chewing I suppose.

And then there's the 'won't come if she doesn't want to' thing... Chicken breast and Schmacko's won't even work sometimes.

I walk her on leash, run her for hours...she is getting the exercise she needs - we do some agility which she loves. She's pooped at night. But constant whining on her chain even if I'm there with her (polishing Monaros for example!) she's still this hyper anxious dog...

I would like very much for her and I to achieve some sort of equilibrium in our lives but I doubt it will happen now but I will keep trying. I've been through really low times with her, obviously, after my marriage break up etc, but it's baby steps with Emma... always has been. Re-teaching is the way to go with her it seems, rather than just trying to stop her doing certain things... It's nice. She's responding. New trainer is female and I wonder considering all the abusive yelling my ex did that Ems overheard, whether this perhaps means she's better with women now. Anyway! WE're training hard... 40 mins a day.... she's doing good.. apart from the number plate thing... but that's a blip I think.

But you know this forum is a great place to 'blah' it all out when you're frustrated about stuff isn't it? Then you get all these beautiful replies from other dog folk and it fills you with such encouragement and positivity and you know you'll keep on going. DOL got me through some very dark moments in the 18 months after my split with my ex and I nearly didn't keep Emma cos of the stress... You know... terrible really what lengths other people will go to, making your life hell and you feel like you're all out of options but you've gotta keep going. I truly understand why so many pups get given up when people divorce. It's hard to hang on esp when you've got a dog who's so delicate...

But Em's a born optimist. Every day's new. She's alive and loved and slightly crazy but hey, that's a pretty good life.

Anyone heard from Annabel????????? Told my OH what happened and he went 'OMFG!!

Sorry to be so long in replying PM. I bet you thought he'd buried me under the patio right?

Well I just told my OH about this and he said some lingerie & a nice dinner would definately do the trick

Its a great way to say "I'm Sorry" Once he's accepted that offer there is no going back

See I do nice dinners and lingerie all the time I think the car polishing thing did the job though... but the vacuum of the inside really was the icing on the cake...

Oh god, I feel your pain. But sorry, I don't think they do grow out of it. My Lab x GSP is still Mr Destructo and he will be 8yo in a few months. The things he has destroyed...

Yeah, this is a new phase for her. She was never really a chewer... but now...

My Sabre chewed my drivers side mirror and my number plate - managed to bend it out and screw it back on tho...it does have teeth marks through it... ;)

Yes, you win. Hands down.

This started incidentally, cos Em discovered that the morning dew on the cars is infinitely more preferable to her than drinking her doggy water.

That's when she discovered that cars are fun.

...oooops, re read your OP and now not sure if your dog is a puppy. Same principal applies, but belt yourself again over the head a bit harder for allowing your dog to be bored.

You know he is a chewer. Set yourself up for a win and don't keep tempting fate.

That's the thing. You're right, she isn't a puppy. She's 4 and a half. And she's never been a chewer before I started the training... WAH!

I would be ringing wherever he got the licence plate from and following it up with them - I'm sure they have heard "The dog ate my car" before

Do you know a good car person that you can ring re. the scratches?

And maybe buy a cover for the car?

Cover for the car... great idea, thank you. Never occurred to me.

And buy some huge bones to entertain the dog......So he can use his teeth on those

She has bones. Endless endless bones... huge bones, tiny bones, snack bones, tooth cleaning bones, plastic bones, leather bones, rawhide bones... bones, bones everywhere. The car just looked good I guess.

I cannot even begin to imagine the way you are feeling right now. Make sure you tell him it has happened though because as well as you cover it up, remember he is MALE it is HIS car and he WILL notice.

Best of luck.

Thank you... mainly horror... deep, deep horror at first...

And buy some huge bones to entertain the dog......So he can use his teeth on those

Or a treat ball or a frozen kong

She has kong... two in fact.

Alternatively - get rid of the car (hide the evidence)

Yes! I like that!

park the car out the front with the door open and the keys in teh ignition, take both plates off.

Ah ha! Will the insurance cover me I wonder.

Thanks for all the replies. I washed, cut and waxed, waxed again and got all the scratches gone. I vacuumed the inside, blacked up the tyres, treated the leather seats, air freshened it and then I broke the news...

I told him I'd pay for the replacement.. and yes, the RTA hear the 'The dog ate my car' excuse quite often apparently. :lol:

New plates on order. And one for mine too.

Yesterday I had to go out and so I smeared a little hot sauce on the remaining plate to discourage her. And before I get jumped on, Ems once had an unfortunate experience with hot sauce... downing half the bottle (It was poured into a bowl) whilst table surfing ... She got half way through the bowl before realising it also had 'heat'. She was fine... a bit Johnny Cash for a while... so she hates the stuff. The mere whiff will keep her off it.

Came back, number plate untouched.

I'm looking for a doggy containment system as I can't afford to fence right now. Would appreciate any suggestions or recommendations. She's an escape artist and I have to tie her up when I leave the house or she'll be off.

Pack and run .

That wasn't the sort of help I was after...

Yep leave town.

I'm sensing a theme here...

I'm going to wash, cut and polish the car... try and get the scratches out... but the number plate... it's ch-e-w-e-d... realllllll good.

So my GSP seems to have got bored one day and chewed my number plate off my car. That was weeks ago. I just got back from shopping and she's chewed my partner's car number plate, plus scratched the back of his car. It's a collectors edition Monaro... OH.MY.GOD.

It's like one behavioural problem comes out after another at the moment. I'm doing some pretty intense training and it's like I get control of one thing and she does another.

Help. Me. Please.