ruthless

i don't know about you jen, but i'd be happy to join forces with the malamute club... no point reinventing the wheel!

Have you been reading Cesar Milan?! He's a big believer in giving dogs a job too. We ordered x back sledding harnesses for all of our 3, I wonder can we use them? Must find out.

I'm interested! How many people does it take to qualify as a club?!!!

the hives and then broken skin sounded exactly like something chopper got last christmas. we were on holidays in nambucca and we don't know what caused it... fleas, ticks, sand flies, pollen? thankfully it cleared up with pyohex and antibiotics. he got it once again when we got home and the vet said it was an airborne allergy. now angel has an awful rash on her feet that she's chewed so much it's infected. i went to see the vet this morning and he said contact and airborne allergies aren't generally diet related. he said we could try a skin and coat diet just to see what the outcome was, but he didn't think it would make a difference. we have no plants in our garden [thanks Chopper!], and they're inside dogs 90% of the time. they're treated really well for fleas [spectrum, advantix and permoxin]. the only thing i think it might be is the grass. he said bath her once a week to relieve the itching [leave shampoo on for 10 mins and conditioner for another 10 mins] and as soon as she starts to scratch put cortisone cream on the area. make sure there's plenty of omega oil in the diet too. staffies are prone to allergies. if you do see a skin specialist i'd be really interested in the prognosis. good luck

Do all the professional trainers here believe that dog to dog agression can ever be fully cured? To the extent that the dog can be allowed off lead with unknown dogs and will not react to them. I just need to know there's a light at the end of the tunnel!

That's funny. I've been told that Chopper looks like he might have a bit of Kelpie in him. Who knows though...

You did, thanks. It just confuses me that the most obedient dog in the house is the most volatile. I keep hearing and reading that dogs are often aggressive due to the lack of a confident leader, but I don't feel that this is the case with us. I guess I wanted to know if obedience training and a dog de-aggression programme would be linked in any way. Is there a hope that because he's easy to train that we'll be successful in getting past this issue?

if a dog is a quick learner, from an obedience point of view, will it help in trying to train the aggression out of them?

he didn't mention her diet, but we have been thinking of going raw for a while now, might be worth a try. i remember you said before that raw didn't suit you, was it atlas or kaos that had a problem with it? what route did you take instead?

Airborne allergies, pollen etc. He siad I can manage it with baths, lotion, fish oil etc. but if it ever gets really bad she might need a shot of cortisone. He looked in her ears and said he can see that cause they're pink she's a dog that's prone to allergies.

I just thought I'd give an update here. I brought Angel to the vet yesterday to get her vaccinations and I asked him about her skin allergies. She's been chewing her paws quite a bit, so I thought he might be able to recommend something. He said the first line of defence with airborne allergies is to wash her weekly to ease the discomfort of the itching. As long as I use an oatmeal shampoo and conditioner it won't dry her skin out. He agreed with the tea tree lotion and the fish oil capsules. Just thought I should mention that washing her weekly is ok as long as she's conditioned also, and as long as it's not a medicated shampoo. He said when her allergies aren't bothering her that I should wash her every 2-4 wks. That would be normal.

I finally received a reply from the RSPCA... make what you will of it... --- Dear Ruth, There is nothing specific in the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act or Regulations in NSW that relates to the use of pronged or pinch collars. However, the RSPCA does not recommend the use of such a collar. The use of the collar, or placement of such a collar on an animal, could result in pain being inflicted on the animal resulting in an act of cruelty being committed. As a consequence of a breach of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act the matter may proceed to prosecution. I have included the relevant Sections of the Act for you to refer to. Note that the definition of Pain in the Act includes suffering and distress. I hope I have been of assistance to you. If you need any further information please contact me. Regards Inspector xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx Metropolitan Team Leader RSPCANSW Definitions: (2) For the purposes of this Act, a reference to an act of cruelty committed upon an animal includes a reference to any act or omission as a consequence of which the animal is unreasonably, unnecessarily or unjustifiably: (a) beaten, kicked, killed, wounded, pinioned, mutilated, maimed, abused, tormented, tortured, terrified or infuriated, (b) over-loaded, over-worked, over-driven, over-ridden or over-used, © exposed to excessive heat or excessive cold, or (d) inflicted with pain. (2A) For the purposes of subsection (2) (a), the pinioning of a bird is not an act of cruelty if it is carried out in the manner prescribed by the regulations. (3) For the purposes of this Act, a person commits an act of aggravated cruelty upon an animal if the person commits an act of cruelty upon the animal or (being the person in charge of the animal) contravenes section 5 (3) in a way which results in: (a) the death, deformity or serious disablement of the animal, or (b) the animal being so severely injured, so diseased or in such a physical condition that it is cruel to keep it alive. Part 2 Offences Section 5 Cruelty to animals (1) A person shall not commit an act of cruelty upon an animal. (2) A person in charge of an animal shall not authorise the commission of an act of cruelty upon the animal. (3) A person in charge of an animal shall not fail at any time: (a) to exercise reasonable care, control or supervision of an animal to prevent the commission of an act of cruelty upon the animal, (b) where pain is being inflicted upon the animal, to take such reasonable steps as are necessary to alleviate the pain, or © where it is necessary for the animal to be provided with veterinary treatment, whether or not over a period of time, to provide it with that treatment. Maximum penalty: 250 penalty units in the case of a corporation and 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 6 months, or both, in the case of an individual. 6 Aggravated cruelty to animals (1) A person shall not commit an act of aggravated cruelty upon an animal. Maximum penalty: 1,000 penalty units in the case of a corporation and 200 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years, or both, in the case of an individual. (2) In any proceedings for an offence against subsection (1), the court before which the proceedings are being taken may: (a) where it is not satisfied that the person accused of the offence is guilty of the offence, and (b) where it is satisfied that that person is guilty of an offence against section 5 (1), convict that person of an offence against section 5 (1).

I met Myszka today and she reckons I'm a bad Mommy for spreading internet rumours, cause Chopper doesn't pull on the lead at all! So, it must just be a problem with walking the two dogs together as everyone suggested.

Jeez, you beat me to it!

I just got this from Dogs NSW. It seems that no one knows anything! --- Ruth i have looked in the Cruelty to Animals act but i cannott find any reference to these collars i have emailed the rspca for information so that you will get the right advice, if you can be patience a little longer. Liason Officer Dogs NSW --- It'll be interesting to see what they come back with! When I have all the facts, I'll get back in touch with the guy from the council and try and educate him! I'm flabbergasted that no one can answer such a simple question.

I just received this email... now I'm totally confused. --- Good morning Ruth, Thank you for your enquiry. I can confirm that prong/pinch collars are illegal in NSW, however the NSW Department of Local Government is not the regulating authority that deals with such matters. As the matter involves the prevention of cruelty to animals issues, you should contact the RSPCA on 02 9770 7555 for further information. I trust this information is of assistance. Have a good day Program Officer Companion Animals Unit NSW Department of Local Government --- I've left out his name and contact details as I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post them.

While walking out of Pet Barn one day with Chopper and Angel two ladies walked passd me on their way in and one said "what lovely dogs" and the other said "yeah, shame about the collars though". That kind of ignorance I can shrug off cause they just don't know better. People who claim to be dog trainers and judges really ought to know ALOT better! I'm thinking about making covers for them for day to day use. I don't take criticism well, and someone accusing me of being a cruel owner can affect me for days even though I know it shouldn't.

That's the one...cheers!

I'm in! Maybe this needs a separate thread Myszka?

Thanks Rachelle. I actually found your thread when I did a search on Google. Your experience was all too similar. Must be happening all the time. The bike episode happened about a month ago, so I'm not feeling too downtrodden about that anymore! And, since reading all these replies, I'm actually not too bothered about what happened yesterday either. Screw them :cool:

Aw thanks for that. I have to say, I had a few people come up to me afterwards to say they saw what happened and they were glad I decided to stay. So, that was nice. I think I may have seen Rogue today. I'm surprised you missed Chopper, he was making quite a racket! Maybe see you next weekend

Thanks Erny and Denis. Having done quite a bit of Googling this afternoon, I found that I'm not the first DOLer to experience this kind of reaction. It's a real shame that such a popular place for dog training is so misinformed and closed minded. I've composed a lengthy email to send them, but I'll wait and see if I still want to send it after the anger has passed! I found this in another thread: The RNSWCC or Dogs NSW as they are now known has recently amended its regulations Part II- Show as follows: © - Under no circumstances is a dog permitted to wear electric, spike, prong, pinch, or similar collars at any exhibition or at any other event conducted by an affiliate including training sessions. (d) - An affiliate shall not permit advertising of collars of the type referred to in Regulation 12.4© of this part in any club publication. --- The RCNSW Committee investigated the matter of prong collars in 2004 and received advice that the importation of the collars is illegal, but having them is not illegal [except in Victoria], even those made in Australia, but using them in a particular way could be subject to charges under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act. Advice from the Animal Welfare League is that: “If a person chooses to use a prong collar on a dog and the dog either lunges forward or the handler pulls the lead attached to the collar it would constitute an act of cruelty as defined under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act. It should also be noted that these collars are a prohibited import into Australia under Federal Legislation but there is no stipulation that they cannot be made in Australia.” We have also received similar advice from the RSPCA: “Prong collars are not illegal in NSW. Having said this, if an owner was to pull on the collar and cause injury to the dog because of the prongs, there would be cause to prosecute under the Prevention of Cruelty Act.” --- These are quite good articles I found too: http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html http://www.flyingdogpress.com/headhalters.html --- I haven't decided whether to go back or not yet. To be honest with you, if it had said on their website that prongs were forbidden I wouldn't have shown up with one and there wouldn't have been an issue. I wonder what their stance on martingales is?!!!

Jeez, if the RSPCA had their way we'd all be using flat collars, martingales or harnesses! Apparently all dogs are the same and can be trained using the same equipment... http://blog1.rspcasa.asn.au/2007/01/22/dog...s-we-dont-like/ http://blog1.rspcasa.asn.au/2007/03/26/dog...ces-we-do-like/

Will do, thanks. I do some private training with Steve K9 occasionally, but I wanted Chopper to do a class so he'll get to socialise with other dogs in a safe environment. I had no idea people had such stong opinions on the issue. Prongs are almost de riguer within the DOL commmunity that it really shocked me to experience such a negative reaction.

I just checked their website, and there's no mention in the rules that prong collars aren't allowed.