wheres my rock

i agree haven and i would use aversive if i felt them necessary with a particular dog i dont like one method fits all dogs either i believe though that you should try to always use poesitives and only when th bucket of ideas is empty revert to an aversive plus you need to define aversive because as in many discussions everyone seems to have a diferent idea on what one is me breaking of an exercise could techinically be aversive no more oppurtunity to gain reward.

working setter we pretty much train the same way just from differnt angles i guess yes my trianing is very dog specific each dog that comes to be i assesss and reassesss and then set up a trianing program the other thing is timing you have to have great timing regardless of method yes a whippet chasing down a bunny is a huge test but have you thoguht that if you then follow in pursuit your baking up the case whereas whn i take off in the other direction and im leader maybe im chasing something better plus your guranted a catch with mum coz that rabbit skin aint gonna get away I am very proud of my whippet Yogi was an amazing dog to work everydog teaches you soemthing he taught me to think n my feet and keep things very unpredictable

sorry soey i donated it to the vca library along wit a heap of others and dogdude your right i meant to teach shoey the figure eight ages ago but we kinda got of track and spent to much time watching the dogs chase ball instead smack on head for me next tuesday night shoey we will begin the figure eight the doodling stuff is the same as what ive been showing you

iagree myska trial recalls for obedience are basiclly a trick but then i call all competition obedience exercises tricks because half the dogs cant do it under real distraction. your also right about neutralisation my dogs think im queen of the fun they learn that the minute they arrive and we continue it right through their lives however i have had rescues dogs my gsp being one and they had high value on things so then i have to work harder to be even higher value my first dog taught me the importance of a reliable recall the say he ran into a busy road afetr a rabbit we had only had him a few weks i was an idiot back then and learn a big lesson he wasnt hit thank god but it certainly got me thinking that dog is the reason i trian the way i do and the reason i carefuly think about what i am hoping to achive we do compete in obedience for fun but our day to day life skills are where the real training goes

hi working setter ok to answer your questions a reward is what the dogs love so for some it may be food another praise and pats anoter toys. for my whippet it was his rabbit skin he'd do anythin for his rabbit skin but for precsion i used food. Also depending ont he dog i cut my sheltie lose at ten months the bc six months the whppet i was a bit cautious because of his speed

umm if he ignored he be so far away you wouldnt be able to go after him hehe he was that bloody fast id nick off and hide and then he'd have to find me or id run away in the other direction chasing something else when he found me we'd have a big play for coming to get me then i'd pop the long line on and go back to the drawing borad whilst hitting myself in the head for overestimating his level of training but thast my point never happened because i train and trian under huge distraction in a controlled environment before the dog is allowed off willy nilly. for eample rabbit skin on a lure heeling next to the race track where he knows he gets to chse then letting him have a run remote control cars ae a lot of fun but you have to have a good driver they hurt when they whack you in the ankle. we spend most of the first year of trianing working on finding different distraction to train with then the second year polishing for the ring. we train very strong focus so the dogs become less aware of the environment around them it becomes unimportant to them as the best thigns in life come from me and if i see a bunny and sedn them off to chase it i als get to say when thast enough but its ok because you may leave the bunny but something good is always around the next corner maybe another bunny

hehe i remember when started retrieving trianing a guy who was trinaing with us had a dog with a crap recall he marched out grabbed th dog dragged it back to the spot where he called it from left it in a stay and walked back to where he started called it wt happy body language and the dog ran off into the bushes took half an hour to find it and get it back dogs know when someone is shitty and he was shitty he couldnt fool the dog

its easy to do shoey i am aware of it because when i put together my heeling routne for ruthroughs i started doing it all the time then when my dog started trying to right turn after so many pace i got the picture duh

it is my belief that anything you can train wit aversives can be taught with positives you just have to know how and belive in th methods

my whippet would stop on a chase and come reliably everytime a because we didnt let him off to chase until the recall had become a reflex action and b he it often meant he would get to go again on something else i think you did the same called dog of rabbit then cast them back out in a different direction my sheltie will stop on sheep and then come on recall to add my gsp that did do retrieveing also had an ecellent recall and when we got her she was a livestock chaser but after trianing she would ignore the world around her could swim through duck for her dummie and always came when i called her

billiam where are you if your in melb i may be able to help you out over chrissy yes it can go both ways and its up to mum and dad to help out we have two kids train at our club ones dad is great he has hawk eyes and his daughter is also fantastic she works really hard and shes trianing a kangal the same size as her shes early teens the other has issues parents leave her there and go off to trian their own dogs her dog is aggressive it as been discussed starting next year she'll be ding one one one until she gets more control and it will be insisted that one parent is there to supervise her

actually the dvd really reliable recalls is very good too i wntched it the other day thanksyou helen years the many years of studying and experimenting have paid off a bit lol

did you notice both times you started with the same routine up right about be careful dogs love routine

oh they do not yours are coming along in leaps and bounds you one of the most natural trainers ive met in a long time

hey shoey not bad big improvement on what you had a when you first came to me is that the vid i tok you need to work on you a bit footwork keeping straight but thats easy go find a tennis court or basket ball court and work along the lines also you can lie a line down on the ground that long line you no longer need would be good and walk along it but big thumbs up on all your hard work

come down to kcc and see my dogs i have three with excellent recalls all trained with positives and no i dont have to have food on me for them to respond. asl shoemonster last night i had our bc and our new addition a german spitz whos only been with us two weeks running off lead and playing with several dogs they came everytiem they were called i can think of three times where my shelti ignored my frst call to come and they were all in those teenage years and he did come but took a few seconds to think about it

send her to dog school and let someone else help her that way its not you telling her what to do

hehe my sheltie sits out a bit coz im fat and he cant see past my belly my sisters dog learnt heel while shewas preggers wehn she had bub she had a forging dog first scenario when i go in the ring i do a couple of quick hand targets and then set up at the post so dog is foccussed if the dog sat crooked i would just reset if it was a training problem then he wouldnt know heel position and so we would still be doodling Second issue throwing food through the legs solves that one dog sits close so he doesnt have a s far to run

hehe in the video she says that with very large breeds its not needed as you can spit food from your mouth schuthund style. though we've done it with larger dogs to no worse than having an over the top pointer chase you down with a dumbell my hubby had that happen and the judge had teas in his eyes too lol

for ages now we've been using patty russo's method of throwing food between our legs letting the dog dive through to get it start with legs wider apart then making them closer together. I reward all fronts this way dogs straighten on their own as the quickest way through is to be directly in front

pretty much most people do what works best for them

much better said k9 than i did

see thast where i think differently heel is a particular positon and once my dog knows where it is i would expect him to be there and stay there if he was wide of me i'd break off and rebegin without any words and also check i wasnt hte reason he was wide if you keep reminding them of whre they should be then is t any different to th person saying sit sit sit

heel to me is a position and that is all so heel means find that postion

i add the cue hen the dog is doing the exercise and positioning himself the way i want so i guess i dont use adjustment words they are a bit like ceerleading if you keep reminding the dog of how to get there then why would he start thinking it out for himself. I try to us as fewer cues and bodylanguage as i can