wheres my rock

actuallu i think thie is one of the better threads we've had in the trianing forum everyone is just throwing ideas out on the table and discussign them without malice good on you jesomil for starting it

A lot of traditional trainers call me soft yet my dogs haev to earn their dinner well a fir bit of it and to me taking away the oppurtunity to gain reward is actually being very harsh dogs often become immune to corrections and scruffing but when you have a really strong relationship saying you wont lay anymore is a big punishment albeit a passive one

cool so they may well be at the same place then

also you need to know how all methods work just in case you do need them or your faced with soemone who refuses to use one i'd rather show somene how to use correction the right way than send them away and have them shown incorrectly

actually the dolphins often dnt do what is asked and often they have to throw them fish to get them in the mood as i said earlier the no bucket example was a good one they couldnt see the bucket they didnt come. Dolphins also peform in teh same envidonment everyday with very little change so they arent really a good comparision. also if you read lasd before the wind by karen pryor im sure throwing a chair int he water out of frustration to get a porpoise to swim over a line is not very positive either. I like using positive trainig i like the results i get but i do say arggh and i do withold food when i think of aversive i think of physical corrections scruffing jerking etc and as i said before i do object to dogs being taught using correction based methods

ohh if the spizt club is held at the same place that could be good how would i find out

i still wanna see the policeman stomping of in a tanty coz his dog ran away and wouldnt listen rofl

oh well i'd be trialling a german spitz i know of one other that may be pursuaded but drumming up a third could be tricky but then agian hmmm

i dont have an issue with aversives only that the person makes sure that it is really necessary first i see too many dogs being corrected when they really dont know what is expected of them i do however have an issue with teaching using corrections i dont like it lol just to add a firend once told me there is a huge difference between teaching and discipline

rofl would they walk away stomping thei feet with their arms crossed and pouting coz i can actually picture that

i'd probabaly come up for it next october if its a show as well

ok on the question if the dogs truly really knows the command he will respond to it if he doesnt then you need to ask why what was different peple are very quick to say their dog knows it but in my experience most of them actually dont know it well enough

dogs arent human rofl sorry couldnt resist

witht he lagging on turns first i'd practise just the turn one step forward turn release and practise the footwrk needed

so rusky do you see an aversive as a physicla correction etc

nah dogs arent like that molly knows you love her and from experience you cant rian all day the only difference i have now is instead of morning and two evening i do morning lunch and evening

hi shoey wehn i was working i trained before work then a couple of times in the evening depending on where we were at as for trianing moly i trained OH's old dog heaps of stuff he never knew lol and she still loved him best

again what do you mean by aversive rusky a verbal nah removing oppurtunity to gain reward or physical corections

i only read the last page but it wsounded liek the dog has been put to sleep

rexy have to admit my gsp woud go line up for the retrieve over the jump and broad jump on her own coz she knew the routine rofl

id liek to add that working setter your right most epoples recall breaks down underdistraction however i'd say the same for those taught using al kinds of methods its all in te foundations if you rush you will miss smething and then it will show up under pressure the key to training any exercise realiably in y opinion is to buidl the foundations strong then add the distractions workingf rom easy to hard to easy i hardly know anyone who sees a whippet racing day as an oppurtunity to trian under distraction but i do same as last night a heap of dogs from club offlead i know all these dogs all ball mad chasing mine was working on focus and recalls he had just as much fun but it was with me not the other dogs

i agree k9 as i said you have to define aversive we all use some sort of aversive using the text book definition so i guess a better question would be what level of aversive people use have to add i know a lot of epople who use reward based trianing but i only know of a couple that i would say can really trian a dog

if i go tuesday i will grab it if its there

not really a shame dd because in the library many epopel can benefit and i can always borrow it if i want schutz dogs heel wit handler both arms swingin naturally and stay foccussed on the hander its actually a god test unles of course your using a hand target instead of eye contact lol

hi jesomil to answer the bits for me i dont think you need many years of trinaing to geta reliable recall with eiter method but you do need soemone to teach you how to do it. im a natural trainer i think about each dog individually and work with what its giving me i dont think about what i do i just do it many years ago when studying at uni we came to the end of a class on editing and the instructor said now forget everyhting i taught you and go out and wirte i belive dg trianing is the same you neeed to elarn all the theories and elements of training but then you need to just get out their and learn to understand your dogs and what works best for them one thing i cant do is teach other people because i dont think about what im doing its to hard to pass it on i can pass on the eleents but not the timing not the ability to change ideas mid session to tink outside the square i also a big beleiver that luring teaches nothing but how to follw food and that if you have to have a bucket of food al the time then the dog hasnt moved past the beginning stages sure you can get pretty far with the bucket but god help you if you left it at home. In karen pryrs other bok lads before the wind she talks about just that when she left the dolphin bucket wth someone and went roudn the corner to call the dolphin guess what it didnt come until she went and got that darn bucket. however its the same of correction when you havent got the chain or cant reach the dog you better hope the trinaing is there to have the dog respond without the threat of correction how many dogs lag when off lead no chinks on the chain to remind them