MrsD

Didnt think so - Im still trying to work out if Douglas is your dog's name or your Dyson's name?

Thanx everyone for their suggestions I'll keep an eye out & see which ones I can get. Cowanbree - that's what I was wondering, whether a conditioner may be too heavy & make the coat too soft or not & whether a "conditioning shampoo" would be better. Showdog - what sort of dogs do you have? I use Pantene - on my own hair, & yes I have used it on my dogs (GSD's) as well in the past .

Completely offtopic, but this comment just reminded me of my first open trial with my boy. We were sitting on a qualie (from memory it was about 190 ) & while doing the out of sight sit stay one of the other dogs in the ring decided to come over & mount my dog & start humping him :D . Zac took it for about 10 seconds & then decided that discretion was the better part of valour :D & took off over to where we were hiding. It was pretty disappointing especially as I had spent months making him rocksolid on his stays as when I first started he suffered from separation anxiety when I left him & would break every time. But hey, that's life , the good thing is that he never broke his open stays again, cant hold that day against him I would have bolted too :p . Interestingly he was also dog aggressive (although he never ever showed aggression when he was working cos he was always focussed on me) but instead of having a go at the other dog, in that situation he chose flight rather than fight. To the OP, everyone has given good ideas & tips in this thread :D , my suggestions are what others have already mentioned Give your dog a quick warm up before entering the ring, but dont do too much & bore him with it Make sure when the judge asks you if you are ready that you actually check to see if your dog is in fact ready & if he's not, then say so! Most of all - RELAX! :D It can also sometimes help to watch the judge's runout before you go in the ring & see what their heeling pattern looks like - that doesn't mean "Oh great, now I know what it looks like I know exactly what to do", but it will give you an indication of where the judge will ask for slow & fast pace & where you may have to do your turns which will help especially if you are nervous. Of course if you are first dog up in the ring then that advice goes out the window :D , but if not it just may be enough to make the difference . Good luck with it - I still remember how nervous I was at my first trial, trust me, it does get easier :D .

Basically exactly what the title asks - what do you use to wash (& condition if you use it) your dogs, particularly if you show? Any recommendations appreciated, I've really only ever used Fidos before & I can see problems with brushing if I dont use something a bit more "conditioning" . Errrr and that's owners that own dogs with long hair - not the owners with long hair btw .....

Glad to hear that shes back to normal Kristie & especially glad that it doesnt seem to have either been her health or a more longstanding problem. She looks gorgeous, good luck with her :p .

My comments were nothing about violence towards dogs, rather the responses to someones plea for help. Not black or white, but shades of grey. My response to this thread was clearly to Rugerfly who happily told us she had punched her dogs a million times. It was not in reply to Scope who is doing a good job and trying hard to train her dogs in difficult circumstances. Please don't attempt to make it look otherwise. To punch dogs or people is an act of violence. It is black and white. There is no grey area. Violence is violence whatever colour you want to paint it. I think it was rude to ask Jaybeece and Shek how old they are. Would you like us to ask you the same question? It is often said that younger people don't form opinions with the benefit of hindsight/experience. In the case of the two mentioned posters I don't see it that way. They are sensible and mature in the advice they offer. It is also said of older people that they can't see past the old way of doing things and are afraid of change and are of the opinion they they know best in spite of improved techniques and technology. Just FYI I am of the older generation. CavnRott, I never said I had a problem with your replies? :p And why on earth is it rude to ask someone how old they are? I don't gove a hoot if anyone asks how old I am - for the record Im 41.

I've re-read the thread and I get where you're coming from, I just don't agree with you. You say our replies were black and white...our first replies were about the violence towards the dog...that IS black and white...violence is never OK. But both of us also offered suggestions to Scope. The only difference I see between us and almost every other poster was that we weren't "fluffing" our responses to avoid conflict. That's fine, I don't agree with you either, I dont think its anything to do with avoiding conflict, I saw others trying to help both make Scope not feel even more guilty (she already said how bad she felt & knew it was wrong) & give constructive ideas on ways to help & methods to try. When someone mentioned further down the thread (I think it may have been bree?) that Scope was looking for help your response was "And scope has been advised to either get in touch with Steve from K9 Force or to seek out another good trainer." Black & white, no other suggestions from others should be forthcoming. Ignoring the fact that Scope has mentioned how hard up for money she is. Once again, black & white. Your only suggestions were that & to get rid of the dog. If you re-read the thread again you may also notice that quite a few other people have commented on the fact that Scope needs help & suggestions. I just happen to totally agree with them. Not that it's probably going to make a difference now anyway as Scope has mentioned not returning to the forum. Hope she finds the advice she needs out in the real world, don't you? :p

not really sure where you're going with that there? I feel that the responses given by everyone (not just me and Shek) were sensible and based on what's best for the dog and Scope alike. Can you give some examples of what you're talking about? Are you trying to use our ages as a way to discredit the advice given? It seems a little rude when we're just trying to help. Once again, I merely asked your ages because the thing that struck me about your replies (not ayone elses) where that there was no shades of grey, only black & white which is often the way that younger people view the world. Maybe it was just a complete co-incidence that I was correct. I've re-read the thread, maybe you should step back for a moment & re-read it too & maybe you will see where Im coming from.

Exactly.

My comments were nothing about violence towards dogs, rather the responses to someones plea for help. Not black or white, but shades of grey.

Shekhina (& jaybeece too), just out of curiosity, how old are you both? Edited for spelling!! I've just turned 22. Are you asking because I'm an immature brat who did the wrong thing? no but it wasnt hard to guess . As you get older most people realise that the world isnt merely black or white, but made up of many shades of grey, unlike the young who often show the temerity of youth & wear their heart on their sleeve :p .

Shekhina (& jaybeece too), just out of curiosity, how old are you both? Edited for spelling!!

Hi Kristie, sorry, I didnt mean to upset you & I hope that Im completely wrong, it just sounds a bit strange if she's not eating either. I hope that whatever the problem is that you get it sorted out soon .

Kristie, are you sure shes not sick?

I've never clicker trained before, but read a quick summary of it somewhere & am considering it for my sheltie pup .

With my 3 shepherds I have always used schmackos, but I can see I will probably have to find something more enticing for my sheltie, the only thing he seems to find interesting right now is raw mince .

Yep, toilet training starts straight away, if they are very young (ie 8 weeks) I personally usually let them settle into the household for a few days before starting them on collar & lead type stuff. Leaving it a few days tends to allow your relationship with the puppy to start to develop, just remember to keep to really short sessions (2 or 3 mins is plenty to start with).

Im not sezy but my suggestions are to start with the dog standing next to you in the heel position & get people (lots of people, as many as you can - line them up at your obedience club if need be!) to walk past him & quickly run a hand down his back. While they are doing it, tell him "watch me" or whatever command you want to use to get him to look at you & bait him with some food if you have to. Might take a while, but the more you do it, the quicker he will become immune to it. Once he is OK with you beside him, do a stand stay & stand in front but stand so his nose is touching your knee & do the same, lots & lots of people just walking up, touching him on the back & walking off again. Once he's immune to that, start getting them to run their hands over him a bit more, use your hands to hold his head if need be & use the "watch me" command to try to get him to ignore them. Eventually he will become so used to it that you will be able to move a little bit further in front & they will be able to spend a bit more time touching him, I think most friendly dogs have a similar reaction to a stand for exam (ie ooooh look, someones come to see me, I'll get a pat, yay! ;) ). Anyway thats how I taught mine to do it. One suggestion though is not to do 2 things that I saw a woman at training the other night doing, which is a. standing way too far in front of the dog when it's not reliable cos then if it breaks postition you cant do anything about it & b. if it does break position she went back to heel & moved him forward & gave him the "stand" & "stay" commands again. To me, that was just a "what the ....?" . May take a while, but if you persist you will eventually get a dog that is rock solid on it's stand for exams :D .

Interesting, I was thinking the same thing earlier after I posted above, I think that for me, a great relationship between myself & my dog is very important & that doesnt just come from (insert a number) mins training every day. I too study lots of different methods & take from them different bits & pieces & use what works & discard what doesnt. ;) Absolutely agree with you there 100% I love dogs with enthusiasm & energy, they make the best obedience partners IMO :D . Don't know where you are, but a friend of mine does obedience with 2 mals up here in Qld, her dogs work fabulously . Edited for spelling!

I don't know if I want to be "labelled" as a particular type of trainer , my training methods change depending on the dog! I do use a check chain & will correct with lead or voice if I think it's necessary but I use mostly positive reinforcements. My goal is to show the dog what I want it to do & then show it what will happen if it does it . The dog is my primary focus, every dog is different & not all methods work on all dogs, I try to find the one that works best for that dog. As a consequence my dogs have always been excellent workers, my dog was training in UD & tracking, my bitch in open, both very happy willing dogs who always got remarks from judges & other competitors about their enthusiasm. I also was a senior instructor at our local obedience club for 4 years & trained working kelpies many years ago when I lived on a sheep property. As for best breed, hmmm, I love GSD's even though I have just got a sheltie pup, I love the working dogs, bias, me? I have to say, this forum does confuse me at times, there seems to be the "positive only" brigade in one corner & the ones that use things like prong collars & the K9 methods in the other corners. Dunno where I fit really .

I keep thinking I should get some pics out of my old dogs (from before the days of computers & digital cameras that made it easy ) & scan them onto computer. I think I still have plenty of old videos as well, but I have no idea where they are .

Agree completely with L&P (not to be confused with the drink ), you need something that is very lightweight so the dog doesnt know if its there or not. Having something as heavy as a lunging rope or a 10m long lead made of normal lead material defeats the purpose IMO - the dog should think that there is no lead.

One comment from me on the sitting at the curb thing - by telling him to sit & then telling him to sit again & putting him in position, all you are doing is teaching him to ignore your first command! Think about how much easier it is for a dog to learn a bad habit than it is to learn a good one - why would he sit on the first command when he knows you are going to tell him to do it again & probably scratch his backside putting him in position the 2nd time while you are at it? :D If he doesnt do it the first time - correct him & make him do it & then lots of praise or food or whatever reward you want to give him, but don't tell him to do it again! It's not like when you are training & the dog isnt quite sure what you want, he knows the command & telling him the command over & over again is only reinforcing that he doesnt have to do it the first time. Sounds like you are doing (& have done) a good job teaching him stuff doing it by yourself , but as someone else mentioned, you need to make him rocksolid on all the things. To do that, you need to proof him in heaps of different situations etc as someone else mentioned, but the most important thing is that you mustnt let him get away with it if he does something wrong! So in your getting in the car scenario (leaving out all the things that happened afterwards), when you tell him to wait, make sure you are standing on the end of his lead or get someone to stand behind him with a light line on his collar standing on it etc. So if he does break, he cant get into the car (reward) or get the food (another reward), all he gets is stopped, then told "no" (or whatever you do to correct him) & put back in position. You can work out ways to do this for just about every situation when you give him a command. The idea is that he should never think that he can get away with it, let alone know he can ;) . Taking him to obedience will help (even if you think it wont) as it will put him in different situations each week, especially as you get higher in the classes which will also help to proof him in the exercises. Also having an experienced instructor there to suggest things & generally oversee what you are doing can only be a good thing . Good luck with him, just remember, dont give up ;) .

Kavik (sorry, I didnt see your comment when I posted my last post), that's exactly what I meant, but with my previous dogs I found that the exercises in obedience (particularly once you get to open & UD) themselves to be a big motivator for my dogs. Agility is particularly motivating as you mentioned, but I also found recalls, dumbell & scent work & jumps to be a big plus in obedience itself

Lab & Poodle, by chain collars, do you mean a check chain? When I train, I start off by using food as a reward but very quickly change to something else (usually praise). After training the dog for a length of time, its sort of like someone else mentioned above - the exercise & the "buzz" from doing it correctly is self rewarding for the dog. This has been my personal experience, but then I have trained working dogs - it just swaps one set of "work" for another. It may not work very well (pardon the pun ) for other groups of dogs, I dont know. My dogs have always got excellent marks in the trial ring for exercises & were known for their enthusiasm & I think its because it was "work". They didnt really care what "work" it was, as long as it was work! :D BTW, my dogs were obedient no matter if they had a check chain or any other type of collar on or not .