MrsD

5am? 5AM?!?!?! 5AM?!?!?!?! Well that rules Dagboy out then, isnt there one that starts around 10? :p

And I am wearing the 14 year old T shirt to prove it. Unfortunately, a lot of beer has been drunk since then ;) Maybe, but luckily beer doesnt go straight to your bum :D .

He's run the London Marathon quite a few times & some others in the USA like Boston, marathons are 26 miles/42kms - personally I think he's got rocks in his head, but he's got a nice butt to show for it ;) .

ahhhhh very nice WL, scared me when I first watched it though - you sound alot like me ;) .

No - in general second commands will earn you a non qualifying score. There is a paragraph in the rule book which states "if but for a second command the judge feels that the dog would not have performed the principle feature of the exercise, the dog shall be given a non qualifying score" (or similar ) . No correction of the dog at all alllowed in the ring, including pulling on the collar or physically placing the dog in position at any time, including entering or leaving the ring & between exercises.

Not sure you would be allowed a prong collar in the ring , usually a check chain or flat collar. Judge will give you directions. Similarly off-lead. Usually a fairly short run out including a halt, drop & stand in each of slow, normal & fast pace + working around a figure 8 (usually stewards standing as posts). Stand for exam is on lead, no mouth & very cursory compared to the show ring. Recall depends on the class, I think the new CCD class is around 8m & always from a sit. Novice & above is usually the length of the ring (minus a few metres each end) All stays are off lead, usually from the other side of the ring, unless in the higher classes which are out of sight. Best thing I ever did was study the rules, so I knew exactly what to expect & the things that were not acceptable. It certainly also helps if you can go to a few trials & watch & train with a club that does trialling training/ring runouts. If you want to read the rules they can be found HERE .

I have to admit that I'm sometimes guilty of that I hate to see someone struggling and often its a toss up btn letting them struggle till the end of the class and then pull them aside and give them some one on one, or take 5 and fix it now. I think that its a problem that is created by both block heeling patterns and class sizes that are too large. But do you let the handler continue to get it wrong for the rest of the class only to help them at the end? Depending on the issue I prefer to take time to fix it straight away so that the dog is getting a clear message and there is no confusion created. I'll admit though that I'm probably more suited to working one on one with dogs with issues than I am to a group situation. As an alternative, lets say that there were a number of short rally-o style courses set up and the instructor could buzz btn the courses helping people with issues. There is still the problem of people being involved elsewhere that wouldn't get the benefit of the discussion btn the instructor and the person with the issue, but at least they could keep moving and working with their dog. Rom, I would like to see - the problem dog taken out of the class & given a bit of one on one attention from a senior instructor. Most clubs have at least one person who could take 10 minutes out of their evening to help out someone who is having problems with their dog, once the problem & solution has been explained the person can come back into the class. This often works best if the problem is something that not all dogs have problems with eg aggression - if the problem is something that is very common the instructor can use the problem as an opportunity to instruct the whole class on the problem. The problem is that many times the instructor will take the dog to the side of the class or get "up close & personal" with the problem dog & often the rest of the class is standing around, not able to hear what is being said or able to work out how it pertains to them & their training. If you want to make it a class learning experience, make sure that the whole class can hear & make sure that you are doing something with the dog to SHOW the difference between before & after. Too many times I have seen instructors stand there & announce "See this dog has a problem XYZ, blah blah blah" & then promptly start talking quietly to the handler telling them what to do etc & then after 2 or 3 minutes step back & say "So we could do blah blah blah about it" etc etc. WTF is all that about then? Why not address the whole class & let them know everything thats being said so they dont just get the "editied version". Not sure if what Im trying to say is coming out clearly ;) , too early in the morning - the instructor could take the dog & handler to the side & while they are working with the dog could get the other handlers to do something with their dogs eg stays, get them to do 3 or 4 steps trying for focused heeling etc. There are plenty of things that instructors can get the class to do so that they don't have to stand around twiddling their thumbs. Having said that, another one of my pet hates at my club is getting dogs in 1st class particularly doing weaving - the handlers dont have enough experience to walk their dogs in a straight line 5 paces with control, let alone weave in & out of dogs who are often lunging & trying to make it a free for all . But anyway, I digress ;) . I like your idea of a short rally-o course or similar setup to keep the others occupied. -the instructor could take the handler & the dog & work their help into the class as they are moving. This is what I often used to do, I guess its one of the hardest ones to do, but I found it used to work well for me. I would keep the problem dog close to me & give help to that handler whilst giving instruction to the class as a whole as well. Doesnt work as well if you have an instructor that just gives instruction like "Forward, left turn, halt, forward, right turn, right about turn halt" you have to be used to talking to your class constantly so you can divide your instruction between the whole class & the lone handler that needs help. Any of those scenarios would be better than the shomozzle I often see now at our club. I agree class sizes can affect it, but in our club our class sizes are not usually that large (6-8 would be considered a largish class), I just think that some instructors dont feel comfortable enough instructing to the whole class using problem dogs as a learning experience for the other handlers. BTW, my comments are generic "we" "they" etc are just general not specific & relate to my club, not anyone specific on here .

Thanx Powderpuff, Ebony will be fine (she's 3), but Jarrah will have to be next year then. MrD was going to start his own thread ( ) asking about endurance & people's experiences etc, so watch out for it .

I get dragged out & used as a demo constantly, both at my old club where I was an instructor & used to train 1 experienced dog in a lower class as I had 2 & now at my current club where I am not instructing, but they know that I am an experienced handler (even though I have inexperienced dogs). Another thing that often gets commented on as you pointed out is the way I talk to my dogs alot & psych them up, but on the other hand, it often gets mentioned (rightly too I think) that NOT everyone's dogs are going to learn at the same rate, especially dogs handled by experienced handlers. As for what I'd like to change about our club - how long do you have? One major pet hate of mine is having handlers standing around, especialy in the lower classes - instructor will be helping one particular person but instead of keeping the class moving or doing something, they will get the person to one side (so no one else can learn from the instructions) & spend 10 mins explaining how to get the dog to sit at heel by luring or something similar. Drives me absolutely batty :shakehead: .

I mentioned it in the very first reply ;) Hey if you're training 2 dogs, do you need another "bike rider" for the test? -WithEverythingIAm Ahhhhh sorry WEIA, you did too, can I claim tiredness as a reason? :D Im sure he could use another rider, cos I wont be doing it :D , dont know too many details but Im guessing you cant handle both dogs at once, so there is an opening for you there . Im not sure yet whether he's going to be riding or running, if he was running you would just have to make sure the dog was used to the bike I guess, wouldnt make too much difference I would have thought .

Frisbee - get in contact with Molasseslass, she is involved in it. Something that hasnt been mentioned (but isnt really a sport as such) is endurance, MrD plans on getting Ebony & Jarrah involved in it this year & hopefully get a title.

Precisely what I think, if the dog doesnt do as well as hoped at one sport, why not try it at another?

I feed my sheltie pup (well not such a pup anymore!) on Royal Canin & he's done very well on it. He was on Advance & was doing OK, but his coat was much better on the Royal Canin once I switched him over. He was also pretty fussy, wouldnt touch the Nutro samples when I tried him on them but happily eats the RC.

DD I do something similar when I teach the sit in front, I dont use "close" to adjust a straight sit, only to get the dog to sit closer to me. Does that make sense? Sorry I just re-read my posts & I can see why you thought that. Its not really straightening my dog, but more slight adjustments usually because I feel that the dog is slightly too far away. Sometimes this does mean that the dog straightns up when I tell him "close" but its mainly so that he's in a closer position to me (btw, Im talking about SLIGHT digressions of correctness here, not sitting a foot away). Sitting at heel, I usually use my hand or use a wall or fence. Here are a couple of scenarios, I'd be interested to know what everyone would do in each situation? Scenario 1 - you are in an obedience trial ring & walk up to the start peg & the dog sits wide &/or crooked. Scenario 2 - You do a recall at training & your dog sits too far out in front of you (but straight). In both scenarios assume that your dog is at a sufficient enough standard that you are no longer luring with food. I did have another question I was going to ask that another offshoot from this thread, but between dogs chewing things up, kids arguing & fighting & having to play fetch with my dog I've forgotten what it is now - I'll get back to you all on that one .

OK, so now we have one person who uses a different command to indicate to the dog that they are not happy with the position, one who reissues the same command again & one who does nothing but walks off. What's that saying - "The only thing 2 trainers will agree on will be what the 3rd trainer is doing wrong"

Just to clarify something, I do show the dog the correct position without using second commands ie I will physically place or lure the dog into the correct position when I am teaching the dog the command. But once the dog understands the command & can complete it, I do also like to verbally tell the dog when Im not happy with the position its in by using the word "close". Another example I thought of is if I was heeling my dog off lead & it was working a bit wide I would tell it "close" & encourage it to heel closer to me. To me telling it to heel again would be not telling or showing the dog what I want ie it is already walking along beside me on my left side & I wouldnt use a physical correction, so I use an adjustment command ie close. Giving it a second command using the same word (as Kavik does) to me would be like giving the dog a second chance & the associated perils that come with that. At least with an adjustment word, the dog knows that it has done the correct thing, Im just not happy with the position. FWIW, I cant really think of any other commands I would use like that (or rather in any other situations that I would use another command) but it's always worked for me . I don't need to use the command, but I like to use it & it's given me good results so far .

Hey Kavik, that's interesting, I was just thinking about how many things the command "heel" actually means. Many people use it to mean "move forward with me when I step off on my left leg" as well as "go around behind me to heel position" in the finish of the recall, I guess there are plenty of people who if the dog was lagging or had wandered off also would tell their dog to "heel" (so in this case it means "catch up & come over to heel position") & you use it as a correction for a incorrect postion. Very very versatile word . I'd take a guess & say that if my former dogs were sitting crookedly at heel & I told them to "heel" (without moving off) they would probably circle me (like the finish of the recall) back to heel position. But that's because I have taught them close as a position correction, to them "heel" only means "go around to heel position" or "walk next to my left side".

My sheltie wouldnt be much use for retrieving - the bird would be bigger than him .

I can see what you are saying, but I do train an "adjustment" command like "close" if the dog isnt sitting close enough at heel or in front whilst physically putting the dog in the correct position, lots of praise etc. My logic is that if I walk up to the start peg in an obedience trial & my dog sits wide, I want to be able to correct its position using a command rather than physically putting it in position (which would probably get me thrown out of the trial ring ) or moving myself x times around & around until the dog gets it correct. (btw, once again, Im just talking about my own training for obedience, Ive never had the pleasure of seeing a retieving trial or competing in one, that's probably a whole different ball game ) Edited to clarify something.

Oooh, Im not that bad .......... am I?!?!?! There is nothing wrong with aiming for perfection :p ;) . Yeah I forgot to mention, the Richard Curtis seminar wasnt an achievement - but was definitely the highlight of the year :rofl: .

I can understand teaching both hold & fetch & sometimes using the commands separately, at least when training. I can see what you are saying - if the dog already knows fetch then a secondary command (like hold) shouldn't be necessary? But think of the other times in training when you use a secondary command eg. in the recall you tell the dog to come, then sometimes may give it a different command to correct its sit in front (like closer or whatever you use) etc, I dont think its much different. I like to teach my dogs hold & fetch separately, I work up to the point where I can give my dogs something to hold while they do a sit stay or while they do a heeling workout, to me it is a separate command, even though fetch incorporates it. (sorry if this is completely offtrack & irrelevant to what you were commenting on - I am only relating it to obedience trials & I havent actually read the US thread ).

We've only been back in training in the second half of this year with my 2 new dogs. Jonty has gone through to to top class at club at just 8 months old - next year we'll be hoping for our CCD, CD & possibly get him in the ring in Open & see how he goes. I've only had Jarrah 3 weeks, & he has already gone into Class 2 after only 1 week at club, next year we'll be aiming for CCD, CD & similarly seeing if we can get him in Open, depending on how his training is going. Also hoping to get him into some canine freestyle as well as he is seriously the fastest learner I have ever had the pleasure to own. Both dogs will also probably get some agility training (although not any trials unless MrD is prepared to run them) & run in lurecoursing (assuming that Jarrah runs, Jonty is a natural ). May see about doing some herding with both of them as well. Probably the biggest achievement (although I didnt have to do anything for it really ) was Jonty winning Baby puppy in Show at the Qld Sheltie Show. I'll let MrD tell you what his achievements with Ebony were .

Queensland has had evening trials (on Saturdays) for years. Also evening confirmation shows .

IMO the GSD is in perfect heel position all the time, the dobe is out in front alot & crowds the handler on a few occasions. The boxer does give focus but then its about a 20 second routine with nothing apart from a halt in it. And she's using food. Whereas the GSD is doing signal exercise (signals only) in UD in a trial & goes for over 2 minutes. Also depends on whether you like your dogs head screwed around so that it's looking at your face or not - personally I prefer the attention that the GSD is giving as its looking directly at the area that the signals come from - thigh/hips/stomach area. Looks alot more natural (although the handlers hand position doesnt ). Different strokes for differet folks ;) . All very nice heeling work outs, if you had any of those in your ring, as a judge you would have to be happy :D .

Nice to see videos of others working with their dogs . Can I just make one suggestion? When you come to a halt, dont step in towards her, you did it on a number of occasions. Polish her up & she'll be ready for the ring in no time.