MrsD

I would have said very few and these are dogs usually have very experienced handlers. Just out of interest at the BC national last year the youngest dog in novice was just 2 years old , in open 17 months (no CDX title) and UD 3 years 5 months. I agree, very few, it is not the norm to have dogs competing in UD by 12 months old. I'd be interested to know how old these dogs are now & how many are still competing in obedience. Interestingly this very topic came up between my friend whos a senior obedience judge & myself about a month ago (Poodlefan, you know who Im talking about ), she currently has a GSD who is still competing at 9, the dog is an OC (back when geting an OC actually meant more than it does now) & she's now working towards her UDX title. She has people who's dogs are burnt out by the time they are 5 or 6 constantly asking her how she manages to have dogs who still work so well into their senior years & she always answers the same - she doesnt push them when they are young. Poodlefan & Vickie - I agree with you completely .

If you're going to compare every new dog to the smartest (read easiest to train) dog you ever had, then of course you will be disappointed every time. There are breed differences in every dog one trains, and then there are personality and drive differences within particular breeds. Probably the thing you battle most with is overworking a puppy who is shutting down. That's why she appears 'dumb'. I'm not sure why you need to have every new dog do every single exercise and trick in the book, as early as possible? Mel. I have to agree with Mel . And just because a dog is harder to train than another dog doesnt mean it's dumb & shouldnt be trained, does it? ETA - at just 5 months of age, most puppies would be doing first level obedience classes & be starting their training - you've "done it all" with Tia, found her lacking & are writing her off *shakes head*

The dogs are all angled towards the left of the video, so I'm guessing you are standing beside them to the left (as looked at from head on). And given the attention that right-hand doggy is giving you, you might also be in the kitchen :D Bitty you are correct, I was standing in front to the left of the dogs, just out of camera shot - but I was definitely not in the kitchen. In fact, I didnt even have any food with me, I did however have a toy in my hand :p .

In my experience it's quite normal for judges to give the dog a fairly thorough exam , starting at the head (ie a hand on top of the head near the ears, sometimes one under its jaw at the same time), both hands on either side of the neck, down the shoulders & chest & back up, down the body, down the back legs to the thighs, up to the hips & give a quick press on the hips & then running a hand right down the dogs back from shoulders to tail before walking away. I train my dogs accordingly & would expect my dog to be stable enough to take that sort of examination before I put it in the trial ring. Certainly some judges in CCD (& possibly novice) may not be as thorough, but many are & I'd rather my dog be more stable than was expected at a higher standard, even in a lower level. Arya, the rules state that the judge will touch the dogs head or body but may not inspect the mouth or it's legs or tail.

Or Australian Stumpy Tails - no worries about tail docking for me .

Sorry Arya, I misunderstood & thought you meant when they were trialling, I was :cheer: . Dagboy & I stewarded for a very good friend of mine who is a judge a couple of weeks ago in CCD & she was astounded at the number of handlers who came in the ring & either used the check chain on the dog or used their hands to put the dog into place :eek: . And that was just to get the dog to sit at the start peg before the first exercise . She made a point of telling them all once at the beginning that she would deduct points for any rattlig of the checkchain & most of them had no idea it was even wrong! She even mentioned the fact that people need to learn the rules before they set foot in a trialling ring in her speech at presentations - unfortunately I think the people that were guilty were the ones who didnt qualify & had gone home by then :D . Arya, there are 2 completely different things. Your dog looking at you is great, shows focus etc. But you looking at the dog is not so great, it can be seen as intimidation, encouragement, praise or even a second signal & none of those things are allowed in the trial ring during the exercise. A dog looking up towards a handlers face is very different to the handler looking at the dog whether or not they make eye contact. Obviously while you are training you need to look at our dog alot to see if they are in the correct position, to treat, to praise etc, but as long as you are aware that you shouldnt do it in the trial ring & the extent to which you do do it ie shoey's comment that she didnt realise that she looked at Ed that much - you should be right.

Not after a week - nope .

hehe, both boys were admonished for interference, boy on the right patted Jarrah on the back, boy on the left could help tempting poor Ebony & asking for kisses . No one has guessed where I was standing yet but I'll give you a hint - watch Jarrahs face for the entire duration of the film clip, that should give you an idea . Gusgem - I think MrD may have something to say even if I did say yes .

One of my pet hates (along with people looking at their dog when they are trialling ) is people using their arms & hands when they shouldnt be :p . Your hand/arm/upper body should never move when you come to a halt & your arm & hand should never move when you turn a corner etc. MrD does it all the time & Im always telling him off for it :D . It's a double signal!!! It's a bit hard to see on that video to what extent you are doing it, but if you are aware of it it's less likely to happen. Probably the best way to fix it as already discussed is to go offlead, however make sure your dog is working well & not likely to bugger off before doing that. Other things I noticed were you stepping into him on your halts & drops as well as you stepping into him when you turn the corners - dunno what that's all about shoey . I agree you need to practice on your own without the dog somewhere like a tennis or basketball court to improve your footwork & sort out your own handling first (in fact I may have even suggested the tennis or basketball court idea that last time I commented on one of your videos you posted - the bane of my life, no-one listens to me ). Something that will help when walking is to make sure you walk straight lines & dont drift around all over the place - look ahead (not at your dog or the ground) & pick a point in front of you & walk towards it. It will make a big difference . Lastly, dont elongate your signals, you should be aiming to give a signal that is no longer (time wise) than the amount of time that you take to say the command (hope that makes sense). In other words you shouldnt say the word drop & still be stooped over pointing at the ground while the dog is dropping. Give the signal & put your hand away. Elongated signals may be penalised by the judge. Arya, rattling the martingale chains I do hope you mean whilst training & not when trialling, that is a definite no-no in the ring . Ohhh & one last thing that you asked - I use a 3 foot lead when Im trialling & hold the lead in my left hand near my hip, transfer it to my right hand when I give a signal & then straight back to the left hand. Being 3 foot there is no slack to take up, the lead hangs nicely & there is a loop in the lead at all times (as long as the dog is in the correct positon of course! ).

Here's a short video of group stays at our place yesterday - not your average stay, but good for proofing if nothing else . PS. Give you 3 guesses where I am . ETA - there is no sound, so dont think your puter is broken or anything .

DD I agree with this (which is why I said sometimes you just cant fix it ), I have the same thing with my sheltie & Im sure its a matter of size. Also I find with him because he's so small & I really have to bend over to positively reinforce I find he tends to come around in front a little as well because he likes to see my face when I bend down. Also agree with the peg & the difference between it & a person but if you watch where you are going instead of the dog you should be able to sort that out pretty easily. Just make sure you give yourself that bit of extra room around that right hand peg with him on the inside & it will make a big difference. And yes, after a long break I often find similarly that my dogs are a bit erratic in their position, glad to hear he's improved so quickly .

You're welcome DD, as I said, I'd rather see him forging & getting ahead of you than lagging, so we agree on that one. My old dog used to always be a dog that was slightly ahead of heel position & now Jarrah keeps his head right by my side I find it difficult to adjust & keep thinking he's lagging badly, but in reality, there's not any difference . The time that the forging was most obvious as I said was in the figure 8, firstly when you went into the fig8 (perhaps you could come in at a slighly more angled approach towards that 1st post to help him get in position before you have to turn that first post?), then each time you were circling that right hand (as Im watching the video) pole, as I mentioned you are walking around him as he is pushing you out & then once when crossing the middle he gets in front of you, but comes back nicely as you circle the left hand side post. Try doing lots of left hand circles & left turns with him & perhaps take you path a fraction wider around that right peg (ie when he's on the inside of you)in the fig 8 so that you arent cutting him off as much (does that make sense? ) The being wide thing I think can just sometimes be caused by a number of factors, some of which you can't fix. But remember the rules state heel position is "as close as is practicable to your left leg" so there is always some leeway with the distance between dog & handler. You will get penalised for the dog being too close & crowding as well, there has to be a happy medium. edited to fix italics

See, told you you'd have fun .

Hand signals were a bit sloppy but not too bad, I've seen alot lot worse, at least yours weren't desperately elongated, which is a good thing . You only slightly drifted in on him in one halt, the rest of the time you stayed fairly straight, probably the thing that jumped out at me the most was you looking at the dog constantly. I know that people tend to do that when they are practising/videoing etc as you often want to see where your dog is, but it can become a hard habit to break & can lose you marks in the ring or even be seen as a second signal & if you do it enough with the wrong judge especially in the higher classes, you may up NQing (as you probably already know ). Apart from that pretty good, he did get a little in front of you at one stage of the figure 8 & you had to go around him on one of the posts but not too drastic & personally I'd rather see that than a dog lagging around the posts. His sits & drops etc were fairly straight albeit a little way out from you, but shouldnt be a problem. All in all, nice work .

SLLH, just try to stay calm, I presume you are doing some heeling etc, just try to relax, unless you have to take your dog completely offlead & do recalls or something there's no need to be too nervous. I know, easy for me to say but its true, after it's finished you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about & will be looking forward to the next one ;) . I've been lucky enough to be part of a demo team at the Brisbane Royal in the main arena at 7pm at night - & despite all the noise, lights, cow & horse manure & other things going on all the dogs behaved well & it was a great sucess . Hope you have a great time - good luck :rofl: .

WorkNBCs keep your fingers crossed for that video cos its raining here atm & is predicted to go on for most of the week, so no herding if it's too wet. Cant complain though we so desparately need the rain . And minority sport or not, I certainly enjoyed it & enjoy reading the discussions about it (even though I rarely ever contribute anything ).

No, no videos, didnt have anyone to take one cos I was in the yard with them. Jonty was very good, stayed off the sheep quite well & didnt crowd them. He was only in there for 5 minutes or so but was changing direction by himself by the end if we shifted position & headed the sheep. Jarrah was also very good but very different, he stayed off the sheep & used all of the yard as well, but uses alot more eye & more attitude than Jonty, he had to get told off a couple of times for ignoring the staff & a stop he even tried to bite it once ;) but got told off & worked really well after that. I was worried that he may be a bit too pushy with the sheep & work too close but considering the size of the yard I think he was great . MrD will be there next Sunday so I'll get a video of them both in action & will put it up. ETA - Im planning on doing their HIT at the Belgian Shepherd trial in April & then see how they go from there.

Love all the advice & videos . I took Jonty & Jarrah for their first taste of herding yesterday, both look very promising (despite working very differently) & loved it (& were very keen to go back & do more when the other dogs were having a go ). Now we just have to wait another week & a bit until we can go again - that's the hardest part ;) .

Completely agree, as you said different trainers train different ways & of course every dog is different & some methods dont work with some dogs, so the more ideas the merrier . There's no right or wrong, just different .

Arya, if it works for you that's great, just not what I would do ;) . I find that when you are first asking the dog to stay, that the change in position ie from being beside the dog to being in front is enough of a distinction for the dog to know that it's doing something new. To me, it's not about separation, it's about teaching the dog to stay in one position & in one spot, whether that be with me 6 inches away or 50 yards away. ;)

To whoever asked, the pup is 16 or 17 weeks old. My guess is that if you are trying to make her stay with her sitting at your side she is very confused because you have just taught her to stand whilst she sits at your side. She doesnt grasp the concept of stay yet because last week you were clicking & treating her for getting up asap whilst sitting next to you. Make sure you are aware of all the possible implications of teaching a dog a trick or an exercise before you teach it IMO. ETA - when you teach the dog the stay whilst you stand in front, to start off with I would be standing very close to her (so that her nose is almost touching your leg), not 1 metre away as Arya suggested. IMO, 1 metre away may as well be a mile for a dog that doesnt grasp the concept of stays yet.

Sorry LP, I had to take something out to put updated pic in there .

Jonty loves empty soft drink bottles (the round ones) cos he loves chasing them all over the floor (polished wood). He has never chewed one up yet, although that could be because of the size of them & the fact that he'd find it hard to get them in his mouth comfortably . Jarrah just picks them up & brings them to you for you to throw - like he does with anything that isnt nailed down & he can get in his mouth :p .

Fang, you can buy Bonnie Working Dog at most produce stores, you wont find it at the supermarket. As far as I know it only comes in 20kg bags at around $35/bag.

TB, Im not quite sure I would be brave enough to admit that if I were you .