MrsD

No, they arent dry, I don't generally use dry treats any more, I either use my training pouch or put them in a plastic bag in my pocket if for some reason I don't have my training pouch with me.

I agree with Kelpiechick, sometimes food preferences take a while to develop. My sheltie wasn't interested in food rewards at all as a pup, he was about 12 months old before he started to be interested in training treats, now he is an absolute chowhound as well, but up until about 12 months old he wouldnt touch training treats even if they were things like chicken & cheese that most dog would do backflips over. We use a mixture of things, almost all soft enough to swallow easily, chopped windsor/devon roll, left over roast, VIP chunkers, cheese, left over sausage, kabana etc. Depends on what we have in the fridge at the time. One comment though, don't buy the purple VIP dog roll for training treats, I used some last weekend at a seminar & it was horrid, fell apart & was so greasy & disgusting - dog still loved it though . I like the chunkers (we train at VIP, so Chunkers are high on our available treats list :rolleyes: ) they are very easy to break up if you buy the adult ones I ususally break them into about 4 pieces, if you can get the puppy ones they are just about the right size .

Ahhh ok - don't know anyone out that way, sorry . ETA - your best bet would be to ask your local obedience club (probably the one at Oxley - Brisbane Dog Obedience Club?) if they are planning any classes or know of anyone in your area.

Jimboomba way? I can put you in touch with somewhere down there that does it too if that's closer?

Levi & I both train at VIP & I would certainly recommend them . Maree the head trainer there is absolutely awesome, both as a trainer herself & as an instructor. If you are on the northside I can put you in touch with a small group who train on that side of town if you are interested.

Hi BC4me lovely to meet you on the weekend . For anyone that is interested, the Rules for Dances with Dogs starting Jan 1 2009 are now on the ANKC site - 2nd subheading on this page. ANKC Rules

So can it go on the dogs papers in Australia? I have heard flyball titles can now go on dogs papers as well. As from Jan 1, yep .

Yes Jules, DWD is now an ANKC recognised sport in Australia competitions & titles will be starting from Jan 1, 2009 .

OK I know this one too from dancing without having to check never knew it would come in handy . Jarrah favours turning clockwise (twist) & favours rolling over to the right (so for the purpose of this exercise, that's right pawed, correct?). Whisper favours turning clockwise (twist) & rolling to the right as well. Jonty is the odd man out - he prefers anticlockwise (spin).

Won't bother with the test as I already know that Jarrah is better at signals than verbals. Although I don't think that for him in this case there would be any difference, he would retrieve something if you called "rhubarb" once he had done it the first time . Absolutely crazy about retrieving. I have worked alot on verbals only for dancing, some moves (around, weave, fig 8) he is very strong on & only needs the one command & he will continue repeating them until I stop him, others he is still learning to respond to verbal only plus building duration. But I always have to be very careful with my hands & body language as he will swap quicker than you can blink if he thinks he sees a signal for a different move .

Thanks kobblyness . That's the first thing I thought of when Ptolomy mentioned about offering behaviours - Jarrah is clicker trained but I don't normally do free shaping. I've only done it once (fairly recently, just a couple of months back) & I managed to get 2 great behaviours out of it though (shaking his head & putting his head on the ground between his paws) so I will probably do more of it in the future . But he has also been taught to stand in front of me without moving & give attention, so I guess in that regard it's a bit of a cheat .

My guess for Jarrah (remembering that we have done hardly anything on formal recalls with a sit in front) is that he will come straight to heel (stand at heel for dancing - most probable) or he will come around & stand in front (our main working position for training). If I face him he's been taught to come to the front position (stand) but if Im facing away with feet together he's been taught to come to heel (although I would normally call heel, not come). I'll try it tomorrow & see how we go!

Midol, if you want to call Ann & let her know I can pick it up for you next time I am down there, then you will only have to get it from here in Brisbane. Im down there fairly regularly, I think next time is the end of the month (unless there is a demo between now & then, I'd have to check).

I don't normally get my dogs to sit at heel so I put Jarrah in a stand in front which is our start position, I gave up at 60 seconds without food. I think most people who have seen him dancing can verify that he has pretty good focus. He is a kelpiexBC, 2years 10 months, clicker trained with both food & toys, did a very short stint of obedience training when we first got him mainly for his stays & recall, did herding all of last year & this year since March we have concentrated on our dancing . As for with a food or toy - I don't have enough time left in my life to wait for him to break focus . Havent tried the other dogs but I can tell you Whisper would be pretty good (between 30 seconds & 1 min) & Jonty would be lucky to get to 3 seconds - with or without food ;) . ETA - at our last competition at the Royal in August we had to wait with him standing in front of me for over 40 seconds because they were having trouble with our music. Even with the huge crowd, people, kids, other dogs, strange smells & noise he never took his eyes off me the whole time .

Thanks varicool, Levi, kimzy & 2tollers . Be careful PAX or next time you come up & we go to Arriva he will hang spoons off his face in the restaurant :D .

My problem with doing signals with your right hand is that you have to twist your body for the dog to see the signal. This forces your left shoulder back which can end up forcing your dog back. This was certainly the case with Faxon, he'd see my left shoulder go back and drop back behind me. Not the desired result at all. This is very true. Although I do use right hand for drop & didnt have a problem with it, but your point is very valid I think. Lots of dogs (& handlers) suffer from this. The reason I give a stand signal with the left hand is that when I teach the dog the stand I swap the lead to the right hand & give the signal straight across in front of the dogs face & can then quickly reach around & pop my hand under the dogs tummy just in front of the back stifle to stop it from sitting. Once the dog is proficient at it, my hand stops directly in front of the dogs face (assuming of course that you have a medium to large sized dog), it's very very hard for the dog to miss a signal that way :rolleyes: . That's the way I was taught to do it years ago, worked perfectly for all my dogs so far! Jules Im pretty sure most of the top triallers (at least up here in Qld) would never dream of heeling with the lead in their right hand .

Thanks everyone I have alot of thing I need to improve, but Im working on them . Badboyz, there was a demonstration on the first Thursday (which I wasn't involved in), the competition that that routine was from was on Sunday at 1pm & there was also another demonstration which I was a part of on Saturday at 3pm just before Best In Show :rolleyes: . I train at VIP at Yatala which wont help you, but I know there are a few people who train on the northside, Pine Rivers Obedience Club offers classes, if that's anywhere close I can give you email addresses of people you can contact.

I hold lead in my left hand (3 ft lead so it never gets caught up with the dog), stand with left hand (swap lead to right hand to give signal), drop with right hand & stay with left hand.

Nervewracking! :D :p

I'm glad to hear she worked well, as you saw, it can be a pretty hard trial . As for the doggy dancing OMG :D

So, how did you go at the Ekka yesterday Seita? I was hoping you'd do well :p . I am competing in the Dances with Dogs today, talk about nervous :D .

In regards to the first sentence above, I have taught my dog that the click doesn't end the behaviour, all it does is mark that the dog has done the right thing & I have taught him to work through the click & to keep going with whatever he's doing. This builds drive & in my dancing I can give him a single signal or verbal command & he will just keep repeating it until I tell him to do something else (or stop him to reward him). Because he is keen for the reward his drive improved ten fold since I have taught him to work through the clicker (& it was pretty good before!). But I do agree with the second sentence, dunno what people are thinking when they do something like that, they obviously have't got a clue what clicker training is actually about .

They are probably keen cos so many of us confuse our poor dogs It doesn't take the majority of dogs long at all, however I do think it's longer than people think. Most dogs figure out click = food very very quickly, but it can take a little longer for the dog to realise click = correct = food. When they do, training can move very fast because it's so easy for them to understand what you want. I use verbal and clicker....and remember you fade the clicker when the dog understands the behaviour so it's not like you hae to carry it around permanently :p I agree with Tess, the dogs pick up very quickly the food connection but take a little longer to figure out the bit that actually earnt him the food, but once they do you can teach them so much! I use both clicker & verbal, I try to always use the clicker when I first teach a move (or part of a move) but sometimes you just dont have enough hands (especially in dance moves where you are often luring the dog). I use the verbal alot even later on in training when the dog knows the move - in my mind there is never anything wrong letting the dog know it has done the right thing .

Good luck, Im not going on the Saturday this year as we'll be down the coast doing a dancing demo, but I will be going to the Ekka on the Sunday to see the Dances with Dogs competition & cheer on my fellow club members .

Qld is the same as PAX has described, as for touching your dog between exercises (or during them for that matter), you are allowed to pat your dog etc between exercises but are at no time in the ring allowed to restrain your dog with the collar or manually put the dog into a position. There are even a few judges up here who ask that you don't break from your position until after the judge has been along the line & given you their mark. Obviously you are allowed to pat your dog etc, but they ask that you wait until they've finished before moving your dog. Usually the judge will give you a run down of what he/she wants you to do in relation to stays once you get in the ring anyway, especially in the lower classes, they will make sure you understand the instructions before proceeding. Don't know what its like in Vic & other states, but alot of judges up here want all the handlers to leave together & return together ie in a straight line across the ring & if you are too far in front of the other handlers you'll have points deducted. The handlers need to adapt their pace to the slowest handler ie if you have someone elderly or physically handicapped in some way all the handlers have to leave their dogs & return to them at that persons pace. It always helps to practice returning to your dog slowly, fast, normal pace etc . ETA - you are allowed to tell your dog to sit or drop or stay etc as many times as you like when you take up your position, judging of the actual stay (apart from penalty for misbehaviour which is what touching the collar etc would get you) doesnt start until the judge says leave your dog.