MrsD

Yep, once again it is that time of year, Ekka time & that means I will be competing in the Dances With Dogs Canine Freestyle division at the Ekka. Toady we had a full dress rehersal at an indoor training facility at the RSPCA store at Springwood, of course it is always a bonus if you have a routine planned long enough before hand to be able to memorise it : . I finished planning my routine this morning at 11.30 & had to perform at 1.30, completely stuffed it up & the dog was hysterical LOL, ohhh well it can only get better it can't get any worse . This is only the second competition of the year & the second since DWD has become a recognised dog sport here in Australia. I missed the first one (Petacular) due to being o/s at the time - our 3rd competition will be at the Gold Coast show at the end of August (30th at 10am). I have been lucky enough to be picked for a demo on the first Thursday (6th August) of the Ekka at lunchtime at the dog pavilion, which is a fantastic opportunity to get to do a full dress rehersal in the ring we are going to be performing in, but without the pressue. The following Tuesday (11th) is Heelwork to Music & Canine Freestyle starters & intermediate routines, the last Friday's (14th) competition is HTM & CF novice & advanced, Im doing CF novice. I will be performing to I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor, if anyone is at the Ekka those days, please come along & have a look. We are scheduled to go on at 3pm on Tuesday & the last Friday & lunchtime (12pm) on the first Thursday, but may well be earlier if they finish the showing early. If you are planning to come I would suggest getting there with plenty of time to spare as last year it was pretty much standing room only - & if you come on the Thursday or the Friday, make sure you come along & say hi to Jarrah & myself .

I agree with Erny, I think it depends on the dog, some couldnt give a hoot if they were sin-binned, others it would work, plus it will work on some behaviours, but not all. You can't say "It won't work" across the board.

Sam, try the Queensland Herding Association, I will PM you with a contact email, they should be able to help with info on training etc.

I taught Jarrah to put his paw over his muzzle/face using targeting. Started with him lying down & free shaped the head between the paws & then used a hand target to get him to touch his paw to his face & progressed from there. When he had the idea I transferred it to other positions (stand & sit).

isn't that the truth . Something else I thought of that may help with the mouthing is teaching the touch command (assuming she knows a hand target) with ball (the end of it) in your hand, so run the cane part along underneath your forearm & just have the ball in the palm of your hand (does that make sense? ). Then it seems much more like a hand target to them & should stop the mouthing altogether. Once she is touching it confidently, simply move it out away from your hand an inch at a time, if you make sure you don't go too fast this should stop the mouthing too. HTH .

Are you trying to get her to touch it (with her nose), or target it (focus on it)? I teach them separately, touch is fairly straight forward & I found telling the dog the wait command as they touch it stops the mouthing thing. Jarrah was very mouthy at first, he's absolutely obsessed with balls or any sort of toy so it took a little while but I just made sure I was clicking before he got a chance to mouth it & using the wait command soon got him on the right track. If you want the dog to target the stick, click before they have a chance to touch it, you have to be quick but if the dog is clicker savvy & you get the timing right it shouldnt take too long.

Hi Josiedyson, regular Dances with Dogs classes are currently held by Maree Field at VIP Petfoods at Yatala on a Tuesday evening. If you are interested I can PM you Maree's number & she can tell you more if you call her. This is where I train. Because DwD is such a new sport here, those of us interested in it as a formal ANKC dog sport have formed a new club affiliated with the CCCQ called Dances With Dogs QLD (we had our second meeting yesterday at Durack) & are currently trying to organise many things, including training (either at existing obedience clubs or at places like Durack), demos & competitions. We will also have regular seminars (there is a 2 day one this weekend at Camp Tailwaggers at Coolongatta) & more intensive training sessions & ring runouts once you are past the beginner stage. We currently have a newsletter that gets circulated by email & if you are interested (even just in getting the emails to keep you up to date with what's happening at this stage) or would like more info about the club, please send me your email address & I will get you added to the list.

And of course, everyone knows that obedience + precision heelwork + tricks all together = Dances with Dogs (Freestyle & Heework to Music) - Australia's newest dogsport (3rd link down) - ANKC Dances with Dogs Rules :p :wink: . Hope you all have a fantastic weekend .

smisch, Im really not sure in your situation, as the judges pointed out the dogs are already registered, so Im not sure what would happen then. Levi, as you know, I was one of those people who spent years driving over the border to trial, Im just happy that the CCCQ have finally dragged themselves into the 20th century (even though the rest of us are in the 21st century now ) & allow non-pedigree dogs at all. Midol, no it's not very well thought out, as I said I am hoping that sometime in the future they will amend the ruling to allow multiple non-pedigree dogs if they are acquired through rescues, but we'll just have to wait & see.

The 2 best things I have taught Jarrah totally by free shaping have been *head down* (puts his head on the ground between his paws) & *shake* which means he shakes his head (fast, like he has a fly annoying him). I have also started a head turn which he had started to get after 1 session before we went away. Pretty much everything else has been lured, I've never free shaped before, so he's only just learning how to do it (& so am I!).

Currently in the UK (don't tell me you havent noticed me missing at training ) we get home next Friday. The Associate Register, as well as non-pedigree dogs, also allows dogs from working registers (the Working Kelpie Council is the one that Im most familiar with, but there are others) to be registered with the CCCQ so that they can compete in dog sports like ANKC Herding etc. So those dogs that are registered with the WKC for example (ie purebred kelpies that are working dogs as opposed to bench (show) kelpies) are allowed to be AR registered & in those cases there are no resitrictions on the number of dogs you can register on the AR.

Monique, you (& any member you are have a joint membership with) can register up to 2 non pedigree dogs (at the one time) anytime during your membership. The limit on registration is only so you don't get a non pedigree after you have already had one (does that makes sense?). So Eddie & I were members & had both Ebony & Jonty (both pedigree) before we got Jarrah & registered him on the associate register. So the CCCQ have allowed us to register one non pedigree on the associate register, but we arent allowed to register anymore. We can however still register another associate register dog if they come off any of the working dog registers. I really do hope that they someday relax that ruling to allow multiple non pedigree dogs to be registered if they are rescue dogs, but only time will tell I guess . ETA - ohhhh I just saw the pic of my dogs in my signature, I miss my gorgeous dogs :D :eek:

Don't think there is one Midol - the old rules said the lead must be held in the left hand, slack may be taken up with the right hand, I'm not sure if its changed. What it comes down to is that the lead must be long enough to always ensure that there is slack in the lead, but not so long that the lead gets in the way. Most handlers use one about 3-4 feet long (depends also on the size of the dog).

Much better IRL Crufts is amazing!!!!! Wish we could come every year Becks :cool:

Dances with Dogs (which includes both Heelwork to Music & Canine Freestyle in Australia) encompasses alot more than just dressage moves for dogs & is now a registered dog sport with the ANKC. Put either Heelwork to Music or Canine Freestyle into a Youtube search & you will get hundreds & hundreds of videos. So if you are interested in learning how to teach your dog stuff like this, ask your local obedience club to get involved with it or ask your state body where Dances with Dogs classes are being held in your area .

What do you mean when it's 30+ - I do all my training inside no matter what the weather . you can train just about any trick in the house, same as the retrieve, send away, presents in front for recall/retrieve, back end awareness as others have mentioned - it's almost limitless :rolleyes: .

Blab check the back of your Dog World, they should be listed in there with the obedience clubs, here are the details I have for them. There are 2 in SEQld - Evergreen Tracking Club Contact- Mrs D Lamprecht 52 McCormack Road South Kurwongbah 4503 (07) 3886 6452 & All Breed Tracking Club Contact - Ms Deb Sunners 24 Cremin St Upper Mt Gravatt 4122 (07) 3349 2233 HTH.

I think you've already half answered your own question, yes, you do need to work & work & work at it ;) . Just out of curiosity, does she flip to heel & keep a static heel position? Or does she go wide even on stationary heel? I agree, its partly the little dog thing & partly the looking up bit as well, I know Jonty does it with me also, although he wasn't so bad when younger, he's got worse as he's got older (partly because he's not doing it on a regular basis I think) but as someone pointed out to me, I walk into him all the time - no wonder he wants to get out from under my feet ;) . If you can't get a good heel position whilst stationary I would concentrate on doing that. I know that Maree likes to use the box, but personally, once I taught Jarrah to move his hind end on the box, I took him off it & I started luring from front into heel position & he picked it up in a matter of days (thanx Pax ). If she does a nice heel position when stationary I would try the one step at a time luring thing (yes, over & over & over, you havent been doing your homework, have you? ;) ) & if she really has trouble with it perhaps try moving sideways (try away from her ) & try to get her to come into position, that way she may not feel so threatened. If worse comes to worse & her heeling isnt fantastic, you can still get a routine together - when I did my first routine which was at Dogmania in the first weekend in May, Jarrah had only been going to VIP for about 5 or 6 weeks & he didn't even know what heel position was . But we did a routine that enabled us to link some moves together with only about 2 or 3 steps of heel work & it managed to get us a 3rd at the Ekka so it cant have been too bad . Now that his heelwork has improved so much (but we still have a loooooong way to go before it's great, I'll admit Im like you, I like teaching more fun stuff :D ), Im working on my new routine which has a lot more heelwork in it but my Big Spender routine just shows that it can be done . No, but she does do seminars at Camp Tailwaggers & if you watch Australia's Got Talent season that's coming up you'll see her ;) .

For me it would have to be coming 3rd in the Dances with Dogs competition at the Ekka (Brisbane Royal) . They held it in the main dog pavillion at lunchtime & the crowd was HUGE, they were packed in so tightly there was hardly room to move. Jarrah & I were on last, we went out into the arena (which was where the show dogs had been all morning, bitches in season, bits of food dropped on the floor etc ;) ) & they had problems with the music & we had to stand there for over 30 seconds in our start position & he never batted an eyelid at the crowd etc or took his eyes off me, even if we had come last I would have been proud of him just for giving me so much attention in such distracting circumstances. The reaction we got from the crowd was unbelievable, I've never felt anything like it before , they literally ROARED when we had finished our routine, it was really & truly amazing ;) . For a dog who had only started DwD training seriously in the beginning of April (Ekka is 2nd week in August, we'd only done a few tricks & very very basic obedience eg sit/drop before then) I was so proud of him . Close second greatest moment would be being invited back to the Royal a week later to perform our routine again as a demonstration just before Best in Show on the last Saturday and getting the same reaction from the crowd - what a buzz!!!

Gempaws, you might want to have a look at the topic Barkly started where a few of us have mentioned having or not having a release word. Personally I don't have a release word as such, but then I don't release my dogs to go play or sniff etc. I've taught them when they arent working that they should lie down & relax, so that is what they do - if I am working at the dog club with Jarrah & someone comes over to talk to me for example, he immediately just lies down in front of me & stays there waiting for me to be finished. Whisper is still only just learning this, but even she has grasped the "lie down & wait" concept. FWIW, if I want my dog to hold a position I usually just use the wait command (in actual fact its usually a small signal but I use both verbal & signal) to help to teach them duration, to Jarrah this means "hold the exact position you are in". Sure he will stay in a sit or drop etc without that command but when you are teaching tricks & need the dog to stay up on its back legs or with it's head down between its front legs or standing on 3 legs after hopping etc I have found it much more helpful for him to teach the wait command.

I agree with you that the dog should come looking for more work, pats or a game after their release word, whether they get a release for every single behaviour as mine do or at the end of the session like yours do. I think that as long as the dog has a good understanding that the release means you can finish THAT behaviour but doesn't mean to bugger off then you can use it as often as you like. I think the problem comes when the dog hasn't necessarily made a good connection with their release word (not that they dislike it, but rather they have learnt that it means that they can bugger off and do whatever they like). To me, the dog's release means that they are free to be a dog and have fun, pats, treats, sniff, play etc etc, but I ALWAYS expect my dogs to be attentive to me so that as soon as I give them another command, they are back working again. I agree completely . This is basically how I work my dogs, I will get them out of a crate, the trailer, in from outside, go outside with them etc play a huge game with them, throw in a quick command & then more play, then back in the crate. It builds drive like you wouldnt believe & becomes part of our training, I don't need food or even toys for my dog to enjoy working with me, Im the greatest toy put on the face of this earth . I will work, reward with food, work reward with toy or play, then work, reward with food again, the dogs love it & are always ready to work. The only difference with me is I don't use a word to "release" them although I do use verbal encouragements (ready, come on, get it, yesss, psssst etc). And they are ready to work the moment they come out of the crate . My trainer who taught me all this is a god .

I do sometimes use the click twice/reward once scenario but only with Jarrah as he's my most experienced dog & normally only in the context of establishing a behaviour (in my case tricks, because I don't do obedience yet with him) that has more than one part. Because he knows that the click doesnt automatically end the behaviour he understands that the first click is telling him that what he has done so far is correct. This is what I do with my dogs, my release word is used as a reward at the end of the session more then anything. As I said in my post above, when I release my dogs, they usually just come looking to me for more work, more pats or a game . I do this too & I always end a session with the dog doing something well for a treat. ETA - something else I meant to mention wrt heeling, another way to teach it is to teach the dog to target something, either your hand (which is how you get that head up/dog prancing heeling) or an external target (someone before mentioned a bulldog clip, but I also know of someone with a little dog who put a patch on their pants on their lower leg) or using a target stick.

Do you use a release word? Eg.. "Sit" "Down" "Stand" Click "Free" Treat ? How long do you go before you've "finished working with them" and they get released/rewarded? I click then reward. Only time I use a release word is when I have finished my session. Whilst I'm working with them, I don't want them wandering off to sniff or play etc. Besides which, my release word doesnt allow them to go running off, only to relax/lie down etc. For example if I am working with them on going to a mat (this is assuming that I have taught the behaviour & they know the command &/or signal) I will do something like this - (command) Mat (when the dog touches the mat) Click - throw food away to the side (after dog has picked up food & turns back to me - command) mat (when dog is on mat) click - throw food to side Similarly if I am teaching the dog to, say, sit in front (for those obedience ones amongst us) it would be (command) come (when the dog comes & sits in front) click - throw food away I will usually lure the dog to start teaching the behaviour, then once the dog can physically do it with a lure I would go to a lure/lure/dry reinforcement. So I would (using a lovely smelly food ) lure the dog once, click, treat. Lure the dog again, click & treat. Immediately after I would lure the dog again (which in effect becomes the handsignal for the dog when it's learning) but without food in my hand, click & treat from the bait pouch. 99 times out of 100 the dog will do the behaviour because they've just done it twice & the smell of the food (this is where using the dogs favourite yummy smelly food helps ) on your hand. Repeat, food food, no food, after a while (the *while* depends on the dog, some quickly, some not so quickly ) you can start doing food/no food, then food/no food/no food etc. Build from there. ETA - ALWAYS end on the dog getting a reward, so it might go food/food/no food/food/food/no food/food for example, I realised my breaking the behaviour down into small sections of 3 repetitions looks like I always end with no food, but the opposite is true. For heeling, I would first teach the dog to find the heel position - dog standing in front, lure the dog into position with food (once again it becomes the handsignal for a flip finish), click when in heel position then treat. In this instance, I would either throw the food OR would feed in position (this would be my preference) & have ME step away, then repeat. Then (after the dog can find heel position) I would teach the dog to take one step at heel by getting the dog into position, jackpot feed it & using a piece of food, lure it into one step (keeping it's head up looking at me) click & treat. Do ONE step - over & over. Then do reward/reward/no reward. Exactly as above. Then move onto 2 steps. Then 3 etc. I used to use a release word on all my dogs that I did obedience with, but with my new dogs I don't & I have had much more success, my dogs have much more focus, I will do a big fuss over them when I have finished a session (length of time depends, anywhere from 5 minutes to 15 mins now but when 1st starting it may have been as little as a minute) so they know they are free to look around, look for more pats (which is what they normally do ) etc, I teach them focus separately but in conjunction with other work during a session but that's a whole other subject . IMO Barkly's barking is probably frustration, I think everyone is guilty of going to fast with their dogs (me included!) just remember you reap what you sow - if you let him get away with the barking & reward him for it, he will continue to bark. Give him a no reward marker, break off & start again but go back a step. So if you ask him to sit, stand & then drop & he barks after the stand, click after the stand before he gets a chance to bark then reward, then ask for a stand & a drop & click/reward & then ask for sit stand drop & click the instant he drops before he gets a chance to bark & reward. For the purposes of this post I've said reward with food, but it works the same with whatever the reward eg toys. Just make sure you are using the highest value reward you can. Also I use both clicker & verbal marker, clicker being predominate because of the accuracy you can get with it, I always teach with the clicker, then use either clicker or verbal marker once the dog knows the exercise. BTW, I know lots of people push to get rid of the clicker as quickly as you can, I still use my clicker during my training to smarten up moves, teach the dog duration etc, I think Levi can attest that it hasn't done Jarrah any harm . Hope that hasn't confused you too much .

Absolutely agree, for my dogs the click *never* ends the behaviour - you get a behaviour with more drive & longer duration teaching your dog to work through the clicker. I also agreed with your post at the top of the thread too Kelpiechick , luring is fantastic but you HAVE to stop luring quickly & get the dog working without it otherwise you'll get nowhere fast. Levi, next time you see Maree ask her to show you how to lure into position & then click & treat for the first step & then do it again without the food & then eventually getting her to work through the clicker. If Bindi understands the clicker (& you are consistant with it) she should pick it up fairly quickly although getting a long stint of heeling won't happen overnight of course. You've seen how Jarrah works in general, that's how I got him to where he is. Your biggest hurdle is your height & Bindi's size but Maree could help you with that as well. If you get a chance, Steve Davies (from Sydney) is very good at teaching that sort of stuff as well, Im hoping he'll be at Camp Tailwaggers again this year as I loved his seminar last year & learnt alot . BTW, I never release my dogs at the end of a behaviour, only when I have finished working with them. I expect them to be watching me & waiting for another command whilst Im working with them. The reward is my release.

Training wise, I'd say 18 months.