Griffo

Ducky, IMO i dont think you could get any better advice than what people in this thread have given you. In the nicest possible way, you should really think about what Jeff has said because in my experience, his advice is usually right on the mark. We really do have genuine for concern for your dog, and we have seen the results of "stuff ups" made thru poor training methods time and time again in this area. We honestly just dont want to see this happen to your dog as it could make him a huge liability. K9Force is the guru of dog training and he is the guru of protection training. What you will get out of him in ONE LESSON will take you a lifetime of reading to learn. I too began reading as much as i could when i started training my dog, but the advice i got from a professional was just so much more valuable. To be SHOWN what to do, to have unlimited phone and email support for any problems, questions, however small, is priceless. Every dog is an individual and it is important to realise that a book can not look at your dog as an individual and cater for that. I know that on first glance the amount of money to hire someone like K9Force looks like a pretty huge outlay, I thought so too when i saw it. But seriously, just pay for the first lesson, see how it goes and then decide after that if you think it is worth doing the rest. People travel to see him from all over Australia, you are lucky enough to live in the same city as him. He is an invaluable resource and you should make use him if you are serious about the welfare of your dog and the quality of training that you give him. I know you said that you just want to get him to biting stage before seeking the help of a professional, but you might be making small mistakes right now that you need to correct. Your dog might not even have the right drives to do this type of training, all of this you need to have a professional assess and help with - someone who has done this training many times before and really knows what they are doing. I truly think that the instruction of a professional behaviourist like K9Force, is PRICELESS, i can not put a $ figure on the amount of information, knowledge etc i have gotten from him. Not to mention the support after the lesson he gives. You might think to yourself "what can they tell me that i cant read in a book?" but please just book ONE lesson with K9Force, and your question will be answered. edited to add: Bitework and protection training is NOT something you want to be guesstimating with, ever. It is a specialised area of training. It is not like teaching your dog to fetch or drop or whatever.

Hi sidoney, I mean both, A pet cam is basically the same as cctv there are company's out there that hire them to people who are having trouble with there neighbours over their dogs. Because cctv is now classed as psychical evidence it is allowed in a court of law. Great in my opinion. Also just setting up a normal video camera is accepted as well. The major thing to back up the video physical evidence is the noise pollution experts who come out and monitor the actual noise level of the dog. This may be a bit expensive, but is very worthwhile in my opinion to back up the video evidence if things get to an escalated stage. Their evidence is irrefutable and will win a case every time so long as the noise is under the stated levels. Kirsten44, Ok saying your dog does bark when left alone do you think it could be a sign of separation anxiety, other symptoms can but not always be.... the dog will follow you from room to room all the time, whines to get back to you even in the company of others while you are there, will not readily accept being left with someone else. Constantly will want to be patted from you. Pants and salivates a lot of the time even when you are there. These are just some of the symptoms. Let me know if any of these are occurring because you may need some training advice on how to deal with it. Dont mean to step on what you have written, because there was some great advice you have offered!! But, I dont think that you can make a suggestion of separation anxiety, a pretty serious diagnosis, without seeing the dog. Not saying it can not be a possibility but it really isnt something you could suggest without knowing AND seeing a lot more. Obviously if the barking is a problem, and simple fixes do not work, then the owner should seek the assistance and advice of an experienced behaviourist in person.

if your problem continues than i would suggest you do some research and find yourself a good behaviourist who can help you solve the problem early before it has become a well practiced habit, as the longer a behaviour goes on, the longer it can take to break!! Here is some info on the stages of development that a puppy goes thru till adulthood... it might help you... Let us know how you go...!!

I agree, but sadly for many dogs that is a fact of life.

I disagree with the above statement. 30-60 minutes of full on work and than 23 hours alone (in solitary confindenent) versus 10 hours alone when owners are at work and the rest with the human pack. I know what Id preffer... and what is giving more pack time. Note - this is not to say that eveyone that has the dogs inside gives them proper attention. Took the words out of my mouth. My dogs could not care less what we're doing, but prefer to be with us. THey both sleep outside, however. Older dog is 6 1/2 and has slept outside alone for most of that time (before dog no.2). No carry-on. It's not unreasonable to suggest addressing all the basics- adequate exercise, time spent with dog, training etc. Triangle of Temptation (see pinned to top of this subforum) helped get my young dog out of barking/ carry-on on tie out. MAke sure she isn't rewarding the howling with attention. Can she try a walk at night and then a raw bone/ stuffed kong for dog to take outside at bedtime? Let me put what i said back into context and apply it to a dog who is to sleep outside....lets say you have 2 hours a day to spend with your dog....even if it is one hour in the morning and one at night.... If you are spending 2 hours a day just "being" with your outside dog ie him simply following you around/watching you and getting the occasional petting, this will not satisfy most dogs pack drives. However if you spend that 2 hours a day doing quality activities like running with your dog/playing games/training etc, this is more likely to satisfy your dog's pack drives. So in context, it is not the quantity, but MORE SO the quality (2 hours doing nothing vs 2 hours of quality bonding activities) of time you spend with your dog.

thanks a lot for that SD, i will have to have a read of your post when i am not so tired and reply... it is a bit complex for me right now lol

I dont recall anyone saying that brining the dog inside will solve the problem. I do belive this could help in solving the problem. I also belive that given two short sentences all "advice" we write here is based on speculations and assumptions. I didn't say that anyone DID say that, but it has been written by one poster that the dog should not be sleeping outside... While i do agree that this could help with the problem, i do not agree that it is the only way to solve the problem, and i believe that if the owners really dont want their dog to be an inside animal (which many people don't) then there are other ways to solve this problem rather than just bring it inside.

Erny i understand what you are saying but the OP was told that keeping the dog outside could be the reason for its howling. While this may be the case, i disagree that simply bring the dog inside is the only way to solve the problem, rather the problem could be solved while at the same the dog can remain an outside animal. I think it is still on topic. :D

I disagree with the above statement. 30-60 minutes of full on work and than 23 hours alone (in solitary confindenent) versus 10 hours alone when owners are at work and the rest with the human pack. I know what Id preffer... and what is giving more pack time. Note - this is not to say that eveyone that has the dogs inside gives them proper attention. That is a pretty extreme case of quantity of time vs quality Lets not be quite so extreme, I was thinking more along the lines of what a typical person might do, for example, come home from work, take the dog for a walk, do some training, spend a bit of time grooming/patting/feeding and your dog would probably feel more content bonded with you than it would sitting in the house with you doing nothing. I am not sure what you mean by solitary confinement, to me that conjures up an image of the dog locked in a 2x2 concrete cell lol... My point is, you can spend all the time in the world with your dog, but you can still have an unsatisfied dog who you have a poor bond with. However you can spend much less time with your dog, but the time you do spend together is high quality in the dog's eyes, and your bond can be very strong and your dog can be very satisfied.

are you for real? Mean for leaving the dog outside to sleep? My dog sleeps outside, i dont think i am mean. We have a great relationship. As long as the dog is getting plenty of time as part of the pack during the day then there is no problem with the dog sleeping outside. LOL yes i think you definitely got me mixed up with the OP...hmm I understand what you are saying tho. I am aware that dogs are pack animals but the OP's friend could very well give her dog pleanty of attnetion during the day. So if she does that then i can not see the problem with the dog sleeping outside. Just because a dog comes inside to sleep it doesn't mean he will be getting enough attention/pack time... it is the quality of the time you spend with your dog more so than the quantity.

Rachelle, my personal opinion for what it's worth ...in the wild, it is a case of survival of the fittest so a lot of dogs don't survive long enough to have joint problems, and secondly, the ground we expect our dogs to walk on often has no "spring" in it (think concrete, bitumen) compared with soft ground with leaf litter. In addition we put different expectations on our dogs (e.g. dog sports) and they are often either flat out sleeping (while we are at work) or flat out running. Plus we have bred lines of dogs that have different frames (proportion and overall size) that puts extra strain on the joints. Just a few ideas! They are all great ideas and many of which did occur to me, i guess none of which seemed so significant..ecept for the one about surbival of the fittest... i guess a dog who was not very durable would not have had it's lines carried on, as a pose to those who were very durable. The idea which you raised that i was most interested in is the breeding part... whether the changing shape of dogs to win shows, is having a negative effect on their durability? For eg the GSD.

Not all Labs are yellow :rolleyes: lol oh really? gee thanks for that. lol i was actually going to specify yellow labs in my post but couldnt be bothered. Still even if it was a black lab, or in this case a choc lab, i would imagine the sun would do a lot of damage to bare skin?

what erny said!!

wuldnt the light colour of a lab's coat help to reflect the sunlight and keep them cool? clipping them would just mean the sun is directly hitting their skin hence making them hotter. Sounds dangerous as far as skin cancer goes.

I limited my dog's running untill she turned 1 and now we go for long runs together... i was just thinking tho, in the wild, dogs would not be able to limit the amount of running they do depending on their age, so how come we do it for them? Obviouwsly there is the skeletal reasons, but they seemed to cope just fine in the wild or didnt they?

are you for real? Mean for leaving the dog outside to sleep? My dog sleeps outside, i dont think i am mean. We have a great relationship. As long as the dog is getting plenty of time as part of the pack during the day then there is no problem with the dog sleeping outside.

you will find that steve is really great and will answer any questions you have so dont be shy okay!!

You have to realise that what may have worked for the 10 previous dogs you trained perfectly, does not mean that it will work for the next dog. It is just a fact that some dogs are easier to train than others. Pip obviously needs much stricter boundaries than the other 2 dogs you own, but believe me, "fixing" Pip's problems will make you a MUCH better dog owner now and with future dogs. You learn some really valuable skills when you own a dog who is not "easy". You need to really make every effort to ensure that accidents dont happen. This can be challenging at first, but it will become 2nd nature eventually. Her getting out is really damaging your leadership, i can not stress that enough. You will not cure any type of aggression while your leadership is being damaged in other areas. You need to largely work around this problem (aggression) to cure it and you need to begin by making your leadership completely solid. This is just so so important.

Ensure you know exactly where she is before you open the door. Even if you need to then crate her before opening the door then take the extra minute to do so. Teach her that the doorway belongs to you, not her, so she can not walk out it without your say so. Never ever let her off lead unless in an absolutely secure area until or unless her recall is 100%. Send K9Force an email about this problem as he is your trainer and he is in the best position to give you advice on this problem. This is what he would call a "hole in your leadership bubble". If you are working with a trainer on this then it is very important that HE is the one you seek help and advice from, not us because we do not know your dog. Besides that, you will not get better advice on this matter than you will from K9Force. So use him!!! ETA Ensure you reread the notes that K9Force has given you and that you are following them to a T otherwise this hole will reduce your success in other areas for example her fear aggression. Believe me, i have been in the same position as you and the biggest mistake i made was not following my trainer's advice 100%...once i did, that is when things started to improve.

tell your friend to stop going inside lol

I totally understand what you are saying. And it makes sense. And obviously the methods you use are working for your dog, which is great, and the most important thing... :D Just want to clarify one thing a bit further... This method will not break/effect a bond because the dog has no idea where the correction is coming from. You might feel guilty becaus YOU know what is going on behind the scenes. But the dog will not share any of these ill feelings. It is better than kneeing him in the chest or openly squeezing his paws, now those methods are more likely to effect a bond. When done correctly, from the dog's point of view: a correction will be felt, he is not quite sure where it is coming from, but it is definitely not coming from his happy smiling owner, furthermore, he knows why the correction is coming, so he knows that jumping isnt so nice anymore, therefore he knows how to avoid getting another correction. However he may just double check to make sure haha. So no damage to bond/relationship is done.

A flat collar can be abused, does that mean you dont use one on your dog? No, because when used correctly they are useful, kind and effective. If you have 60kg of dog jumping up on you then something needs to be done, and quickly, particularly if your a small person. I dont believe bandaid fixes, but it is a good way to get the problem under control and quickly. Of course things like leadership should be worked on too. The thing is that the dog does not know that the correction is coming from you - your not discouraging him, why would you be the one giving the correction? So it wont damage your relationship, you'll still be the nice happy smiling person. It'll just make jumping up not such a comfortable thing to do. It doesnt have any ill effects short term or long term. It is a method that communicates with the dog... i cant see what the problem is. Good to hear that you seemed to have solved the problem!! ;) ;)

erny my thing about my experiences with prongs is still coming, i havent forgotten... will be done hopefully by tonight

Ain't that the truth! I had the same problem with a dog lunging on lead and people patting her and giving her treats when she was doing that That would make things difficult seeing as she is continually getting rewarded for her behaviour by other people. What do you do in that case? The only thing i can think of is telling people not to touch her, but that would sound pretty harsh.

isn't Erny in VIC? She is good!!!