Not Sure If I Should Listen To My Vet's Advice...

[chichihuahua]

I'm really confused about what to believe regarding yearly vaccinations. My dog went for an ear check-up today and while I was there, my vet reminded me about his upcoming vaccinations and seemed quite upset when I told him I wasn't planning on doing them this year. His exact words were: "You don't have to, but I wouldn't recommend it". He went on to say that he understands there is a big debate about it but the amount of dogs that actually have issues is very small in comparison. He did say that if I wasn't to go down that path I still need to do one for kennel cough (which I plan to do anyway).

Then he told me about a registered 3-year vaccine that which meant it only needed to be administered every 3 years. Apparently that one is different to the yearly ones? His clinic didn't carry it but he said that if I wanted to, he could order that one in for me. I'm confused about the difference between the two - is the 3 year vaccine the one people use when they don't vaccinate yearly? Apparently it's a different strain to C5 - which is the one my dog normally has. The vet said the 3 year one is a C3 and then you do kennel cough yearly on top of that.

Please help! The vet is very nice, seems very knowledgeable too and is quite old so I would think he is experienced in the matter. I don't want to put my dog at risk of parvo etc so I'm not really sure what to do. I know there is also the option of titre testing but it seems rather expensive. My dog just turned three so this is his second annual vaccination. I actually wanted to skip it last year but was talked into doing it and had made up my mind I wasn't going to do it this year, but now the talk of a 3-year vaccine and how it's different to the c5 one is confusing me!

[Red Fox]

The 'registered' 3 yearly vacc is different from the annual vacc given 'off label' at 3 yearly intervals. Though it's debatable whether it's more effective or not. There have been a few threads on this if you do a search. I believe that Stormy knows a bit about the two and posted some info on it a while back.

Personally I would titre test if you're worried. Is there a high incidence of parvo in your area?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

my vet recommended the parvo anf kc done yearly so thats what i did

[Lab_Rat]

A C3 Vaccination covers distemper, parvovirus and hepatitis.

C4 is a C3 with vaccine for parainfluenza (strain of Kennel Cough)

C5 is a C4 with vaccine for Bordetella bronchiseptica (another strain of Kennel Cough)

Kennel cough needs vaccinating for each 12 months or so, C3 every three years approx.

I had my girls titre tested this year and will continue to do so until it shows they need revaccinating for C3.

Rat

[Ms James]

We do the three yearly jab with the KC booster every year at check up time.

[Erny]

He went on to say that he understands there is a big debate about it but the amount of dogs that actually have issues is very small in comparison.

But doesn't that beg the question of how many dogs have contracted serious and debilitating disease because of the fact they haven't had their annual vaccination (assuming they have at least been immunised as pups)? I doubt the Vets would know, and I don't even know how they'd be able to tell this via studies.

But the point is, titre testing is available; it's confirmed that yearly vaccination is over toxicating our dogs for no good reason; and I hate the "there's not that many dogs who suffer from the affects of yearly vaccinations". Tell that to a person whose dog has succumbed serious illness as a result of vaccination reaction. And it's pretty safe for Vets to say "not many dogs suffer by it" ..... how do they know that the dog's life span has not been shortened as a result? No one's going to be able to prove it.

I wouldn't do the "3 year vaccination" (I think they charge more for it as well, but that's beside the point). My boy has had his puppy vacc and a titre test confirming antibodies. I don't plan to vaccinate again.

[Cosmolo]

Is anyone aware whether regulations are going to be changed regarding vaccinations at boarding kennels, training centres, daycare centres etc. At this stage we have to make the choice that either we vaccinate and our dogs can go to these places- or we don't and the dogs can not.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

what does a titre test involve and how much do you pay for it?

There have been several outbreaks of Parvo round here, and my dog likes to sniff dog poo, so it's either limit walks for a farm dog - so wrong, or get vaccinated.

But if there is an optimum level and annual isn't it, I'd like to know more.

[Erny]

what does a titre test involve and how much do you pay for it?

There have been several outbreaks of Parvo round here, and my dog likes to sniff dog poo, so it's either limit walks for a farm dog - so wrong, or get vaccinated.

But if there is an optimum level and annual isn't it, I'd like to know more.

From the AVA (FAQ) site :

Why is the change necessary?

While adverse reactions to vaccines are not widespread, there is a consensus in the scientific community that veterinarians should aim to reduce the vaccine load on individual animals to minimise any risks of adverse reactions, if this can be done without compromising the animal’s immunity to disease.

The scientific sources quoted in the new AVA policy outline the available evidence that supports extended duration of immunity for the core vaccines. In summary, improvements to vaccines have increased their effectiveness, and new studies have indicated that immunity lasts longer than previously thought.

In making the change to triennial core vaccinations, Australia follows the veterinary profession in other developed countries. Most universities have been teaching veterinary students triennial core vaccination for several years. The American Animal Hospital Association, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Association of Feline Practitioners, the New Zealand Veterinary Association, the British Veterinary Association and the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (among others) have all moved away from standard annual protocols in favour of a tailored approach that takes individual factors into consideration.

Won’t we see an increase in diseases such as parvovirus in less vaccinated populations?

This does not appear to have happened in other countries when vaccination protocols have been changed. In its messages to the public, the AVA is emphasising the need for more puppies and kittens to be vaccinated to make sure that as many adult animals as possible are protected.

Read more ...

[Erny]

what does a titre test involve and how much do you pay for it?

Vet draws bloods. Vet sends them away for testing. Vet lets you know results.

I can't recall how much I paid because our Vet visit covered other things as well. I think it was in the vicinity of $110.00 or so, but please don't quote me. This was about 9 months ago.

There have been several outbreaks of Parvo round here, and my dog likes to sniff dog poo, so it's either limit walks for a farm dog - so wrong, or get vaccinated.

When your dog has sufficient immunity, it's not about "topping it up". Your dog is either immune, or he isn't.

When parvo is reported, I admit that I'm that bit more cautious (and to be frank, it's especially during epidemics in certain areas that I'm loath to take my dog in to the Vet clinic, unless it is absolutely necessary - I usually ask if they've had parvo case/s in lately). Vaccination doesn't guarantee against it. But everything within reason.

If you would like more information beyond the AVA info link I provided above, google "Dr. Jean Dodds" - she's an early advocate for NOT over-vaccinating our dogs. In fact you'll probably find quite a bit of other information links via google.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Erny

[Dame Aussie]

To me, vaccinating for KC is like vaccinating for the common cold in humans...useless...too many strains.

[rubiton]

Reckon the OP is the perfect example of how many will go 'oh its ok to be 3 yearly' without realising it is a different product (have read info saying the exact same thing that the three yearly one is different).

Titre test or vaccinate but your vet if you trust their judgement is the best place to get info too much random stuff on the internet (and opinions)

[Lab_Rat]

As I understand it there is no real "difference" between the 3 core ingredients in the C3 and the C5 - but because the Kennel Cough component that makes it a C5 needs to be administered yearly this is what makes the two vaccines different. You could use the C5 every 3 years, but your dog would probably NOT be covered that whole time for Kennel Cough......

Im with you on the KC vacc Aussie3 - getting a jab for the swine flu or this years strain of flu wont prevent you from getting some other flu virus thats hanging around.....It probably is the same for Kennel Cough.

Rat

[Erny]

Titre test or vaccinate but your vet if you trust their judgement is the best place to get info too much random stuff on the internet (and opinions)

How can you trust their judgement when it is contrary to even AVA release?

C3 is the vaccine for the 3 core diseases.

C4 = C3 + Para-influenza (1 strain of canine cough)

C5 = C3 + Bordetella and Para-influenza (2 strains of canine cough)

Edited May 28, 2010 by Erny

[chichihuahua]

How can you trust their judgement when it is contrary to even AVA release?

C3 is the vaccine for the 3 core diseases.

C4 = C3 + Para-influenza (1 strain of canine cough)

C5 = C3 + Bordetella and Para-influenza (2 strains of canine cough)

Okay, so if I went for the C3 and then I added kennel cough vacc on top of it, it would be sufficient? And then I would just vaccinate for kennel cough every year until it's time to do the C3 thing again. According to the vet, the C3 has a diffferent "stain" to the C5 but I'm not sure if that means it'll be more potent or whatever, to make it okay for 3 years. My vet is definitely against the whole "skip a year vaccination" argument but he seemed okay with the idea of doing it every three years if I went for the C3 option. I'm not sure why? By the sounds of it, it's exactly the same thing minus the kennel cough component.

Am leaning towards maybe doing titre testing. I asked the vet at the checkup today and his response was: "yes, you can test for antibodies but it's not very economical. It's much cheaper to just do vaccinations". So I'm worried the amount is upwards of $300 or more.

[dancinbcs]

Does anyone know what the actual difference is between the labelled annual C3 and the 3 yearly C3? Apparently they are two different products and labelled as such. The 3 yearly one is more expensive but I have not been able to find out why, other than the fact that the manufacturer says one is for one year and the other for 3 years. The AVA recommendations do not make any mention of the two different vaccines.

[Erny]

Okay, so if I went for the C3 and then I added kennel cough vacc on top of it, it would be sufficient? And then I would just vaccinate for kennel cough every year until it's time to do the C3 thing again. According to the vet, the C3 has a diffferent "stain" to the C5 but I'm not sure if that means it'll be more potent or whatever, to make it okay for 3 years. My vet is definitely against the whole "skip a year vaccination" argument but he seemed okay with the idea of doing it every three years if I went for the C3 option. I'm not sure why? By the sounds of it, it's exactly the same thing minus the kennel cough component.

Am leaning towards maybe doing titre testing. I asked the vet at the checkup today and his response was: "yes, you can test for antibodies but it's not very economical. It's much cheaper to just do vaccinations". So I'm worried the amount is upwards of $300 or more.

There is a "3-yearly C3" they brought out. I wouldn't do that one. It's a 'super-charged' vaccine. Others will be able to explain it better than I. I don't know what your Vet means by "stain" :rolleyes: .

If you are going to vaccinate throughout your dog's life (that's not the regime I would follow), then I'd go for the ordinary "yearly" C3 but just give it once every 3 years. As I said, beyond puppy vaccination and a titre to confirm antibodies, I don't do the 'booster' thing. If my dog is immune, then he's immune. No need to fill his body up with more chemicals for the sake of it.

If you have to have Canine Cough cover (kennel requirement etc) then you would have a C5 (which is the C3 and two strains of Canine Cough) and then yes, you would have just the Canine Cough annually for each of the next two years after that until the booster is then next due again, when you would repeat with a C4 (or C5) and so on. I think when you do the Canine Cough separately, it is by way of 'live' nasal spray. I'm not sure - as I mentioned, I don't do this.

There doesn't seem to be a standard fee for the titre test - it varies so much from one to another, but I think the average reasonable fee would be anywhere between $100 - $150.00. $300 seems way over the top to me.

If I were in your shoes I'd probably be wanting to hunt around for another Vet - mainly because he sounds as though he is hell bent on pushing for his preferred regime. That's his prerogative, of course.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Erny

[gsdog2]

My 18mth old GSD has recently had the 3 yearly C3 vaccination - I asked my regular vet if he would give this vaccine and I was given a firm "no", and he wouldn't order it in either. When I mentioned that the AVA is now saying yearly is not neccesary my vet told me that the AVA are now changing their stance on vaccines (I didn't know that :rolleyes: ). He also said of the 3 year C3 vaccination - he had asked the drug company to put in writing that they guarantee the vaccine would give full protection for three years and apparently they refused. Anyway I have taken her to another vet and she has now had the three yearly vaccine and I will get her titre tested next year. As far as KC is concerned I have always had my dogs fully vaccinated (C5) and they've still had KC, in fact one nearly died of complications (costing $3000 in specialist fee's). So unless my dogs go to a kennel I won't have them vaccinated for KC

[Erny]

Am I right in presuming that when you refer to "3-yearly" you're talking about the "super-charged" vaccine as opposed to the normal C3 but opting to give it once every 3 years?

From what I have read, I wouldn't touch the "3-yearly super-charged" vaccine with a barge pole.

But as I mentioned, for that matter, I don't do the yearly boosters either.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Erny

[gsdog2]

Am I right in presuming that when you refer to "3-yearly" you're talking about the "super-charged" vaccine as opposed to the normal C3 but opting to give it once every 3 years?

From what I have read, I wouldn't touch the "3-yearly super-charged" vaccine with a barge pole.

But as I mentioned, for that matter, I don't do the yearly boosters either.

I'm guessing that's the one.

As no-one else has come forward to give the downside of this vaccine I would appreciate it if you'd elaborate on what your concerns are Erny.