Recall Training

[dee lee]

Well, I have just recently discovered that Honey's recall is complete shite.

Our regular exercise regime involves me jogging with her or me throwing a ball for her.

With both activities her recall is pretty good because her focus is on keeping up with me or on the ball.

In the last week I have had a cold and I also thought she could do with a break from the strenuous exercise, so we have just been walking onlead on the street to a couple of different offlead parks.

I have been using it as an opportunity to improve her recall reliability. I have been doing this all along but have wanted to improve it as she will occasionally bolt off if she sees (for example) plane vapour trails and its can be bloody dangerous depending where I am (we have been in safe/fenced places this week luckily).

I have been bringing lots of treats, rewarding heavily, only calling when I know she will come etc. Low distraction levels all is good.

However I am having trouble building up to higher distraction- she is just oh so happy to be chasing those vapour trails.

So a couple of questions please.

1. When she does do her bolt off, what should I do? I dont call her once she has bolted because I know it wont work. She does come back after she has had her fun and I always praise her for that but I feel that I am rewarding her for bolting off.

2. If I was to use a long line (which is my next step I think) what do I do to get her to come back to me? Give a little tug on the line if I call and she doesn't turn to me? She is taking a very long time to improve on her looselead walking so I am a bit concerned that a long line will just be an extension of that and she wont learn that she must come back.

Argh, she is a divine dog, the sheer joy of her bounding around and sniffing at the park, just for the sake of it, is lovely to watch.

She is not racing off "giving me the finger" as I have had previous dogs do, but just hasnt learnt it isnt ok. She returns with a look of "wow did you see that, how great was that??!"

I need to get on top of this so I can not worry about her getting hurt.

For those that dont know, Honey is a 3 year old rescue GR I have had for about 5 months. Her history is such that she did not spend much time out of her yard.

Phew that was long, sorry! Hope you guys can help.

[Golden Rules]

I sympathise but can't help All my rescue Goldies have had bad recall. A lot of people have told me it's because I didn't have them as puppies

A few Doler friends have seen Dougal look at me when I call him and he turns in the opposite direction and runs for his life!! He has a strange sense of humour

A Doler friend said she would lend me a copy of The Really Reliable Recall DVD so I am patiently waiting for that and hoping I might learn something new.

I have read also that you have to go right back to the start with recall and NEVER let the dog off lead until it does come back when called 99% of the time. If the training takes a relapse at any stage, you have to go back to the lead again.

And yes, when on a long lead, you call the dog and if it doesn't come, you reel the dog in and reward.

I'll be interested to read other's responses and recommendations.

Good luck deelee!

[megan_]

I suggest buying/borrowing the Really Reliable Recall DVD - it explains a lot of concepts that need to work together to get a recall.

I think you also need to build up her level of distraction very slowly, to ensure she gets a win 99.99% of the time.

With the long line, if she doesn't look back when you call her name, jiggle the lead. When she looks back give her a "good girl" then call 'come" in your most exciting voice. Run backwards with a "pup, pup, pup", moving your hands (I clap ). When she comes to you, your reward needs to be really good. Break her treat into tiny little pieces and give them to her slowly. If she loves a pat and rub, get down to her level and give her a cuddle. Basically, if you're not looking like a crazy lady then you aren't going to be exciting enough. Then, and this is the most important bit, release her. Don't ever call her just when you're wanting to leave, otherwise she'll learn that coming to you means the end of fun.

If, when you call come, she ignores you, I'd walk up to her and use a non reward marker (mine is "too bad") only let her have 1m of leash and walk for a minute, not letting her play or sniff. Basically, the rules are "if you listen to me, we have fun,. If you don't fun stops".

Some other tips which might help:

* When you are at home, you can play the name game with her. Hide and call her name in a happy voice. When she comes to you, treat, play etc. This helps teach her to respond to her name and to find you (rather than you chasing after her).

* Try reducing using her name unless you want something from her. If you use her name all the time it will lose its meaning. Make "Honey" a special word. I talk to my dogs all the time so I have some nicknames that I use. When you do use her name and she responds, praise her.

* I can't remember where I learnt this recall technique, but I'm trying it out now and it seems to be effective. Basically get 10 of her favourite treats. These treats must only be used for this exercise. When she is near you (just naturally, you don't call her), say your recall word and give her a treat. Do this 10 times a day for 3 weeks (always when the dog is near you). After 3 weeks, stand in another room and use the word. If she runs to you then the conditioning has worked. If not, go back to step 1. Repeat and build up.

Th RRR trainer says that dogs need to be given a lot of off leash time even when they're not 100% trained otherwise the risk of them running off is greater. The caveat though is that this must always be in a safe place. If she was my dog, I'd only take her to fenced parks for now.

[tlc]

Hi, Have you considered using a whistle to use at times when you need her to recall immediatley. My oldest boy nearly 4 has always been a very sociable dog and his recall is not 100 percent reliable but better now with the whistle in emergency situations.

All I did to teach is to have two whistles you have one and get another person to have one. Arm yourself with doggy favorite food and make a distance between you and the other person, we did it inside the house in seperate rooms so the dogs had to find the other person. One person have the dog with them the other person whistle as soon as the dog gets to the whistling person treat the dog. Then just wait a few minutes and do it again with the other person whistling. I did this for about 3 days in a row, twice a day for 5 minutes each time before I put it into practice out and about and It works wonders.

All my younger ones have excellent recall anyway so it was really for Coopers benefit but it really works I would say his recall is about 95 percent better now than it was before. But one thing I still always do is if I have to use the whistle (and I only use it if I really need to) I always treat. so if I am just recalling with my voice occasionally I might treat but with the whistle the treat is definatley given.

Anyway not sure how other people whistle train but this worked for me. Also good for one place we go where there is a lot of bush tracks the dogs explore and if they get out of ear shot and can't hear me the whistle is great for that too.

[dee lee]

Golden Rules- NOOOOooooooo!!!!!!

I have heard someone say that before about rescue dogs. I often think about that as she runs off and I stand there slapping my forehead ...

Though it is very reassuring to know you are in the same boat.

Megan, thanks for the great tips!

Th RRR trainer says that dogs need to be given a lot of off leash time even when they're not 100% trained otherwise the risk of them running off is greater. The caveat though is that this must always be in a safe place. If she was my dog, I'd only take her to fenced parks for now.

I totally agree with this- both with the running off risk and the safety- with these non activity focused walks I have been taking her to big parks where she cant run out (she wont run out of my view than god). I still worry though.

TLC- I really like the idea of a whistle, especially since I wonder if the COME command might be a bit compromised by now.

Where do you get whistles?

[Golden Rules]

Anywhere that sells dog training stuff will have whistles. Black Dog have them, Clean Run, your local pet shop might even have them. I read the best one to get is a pealess whistle. (I have one of every kind and forget to take them out with me )

[Simply Grand]

I think an important point of Really Reliable Recall is that you use a DIFFERENT command for the emergency recall than you use for your normal "come over here" command. I think that's why a whistle would work, but you don't necessarily need to use one if you don't mind making an idiot of yourself! Definitely don't use your usual 'come'.

Saxon will come to me when I call his name and/or say 'come' in normal situations - ie there's nothing better to do! - but in higher distraction situations like at the dog park, out walking or accidental escapes I use a high-pitched "saxsaxsaxsaxsax" call. Sounds kinda weird but gets his attention and mostly makes him come over to me. Whenever he comes to me when we're out in public, but particularly after I use that call, I give him a huge fuss - food treats if I have them plus lots of praise, pats, cuddles and kisses. RRR says do this for 30 seconds each time they respond to your emergency recall command.

You teach it by doing it when they're coming towards you anyway, so I guess if you can tell your dog is happy to see you and is running over to you, use your command or whistle until they get to you then reward HEAPS! Try and do this several times a day every day so that if you actually need it, it's conditioned.

That's the gist of it, but I still think the RRR dvd is a good investment, I got it from the US for only around AU$40 over the internet.

[corvus]

1. When she does do her bolt off, what should I do? I dont call her once she has bolted because I know it wont work. She does come back after she has had her fun and I always praise her for that but I feel that I am rewarding her for bolting off.

You aren't provided she doesn't cotton on to "run off + return = treat". Some dogs never do. But if it were me I'd go after her and get her. In fact, if it were me she'd be on a long line until she was more reliable. It is dangerous, as you say.

2. If I was to use a long line (which is my next step I think) what do I do to get her to come back to me? Give a little tug on the line if I call and she doesn't turn to me? She is taking a very long time to improve on her looselead walking so I am a bit concerned that a long line will just be an extension of that and she wont learn that she must come back.

I've always let long lines trail and just used it as a backup. I don't use it as a tool in recall training. If the dog is on the long line same rules apply and I only call if I am sure they are gonna come. We all make mistakes and if you call and they don't come as you expected, I would go through the other steps with the "pup pup pup" and doing something unexpected or fast and exciting.

I second RRR. It's awesome! OH was telling me this evening how he used Erik's recall to try to get him to come around and notice our house mouse running along the lounge room floor. Once OH had been severely reprimanded for deliberately setting Erik up to fail his recall and not even having anything to reward him with when he didn't fail, I took the time to be impressed that Erik was not in the slightest distracted from recalling by a fleeing mouse. Not bad. His recall reliability is VERY close to 100%. I can't think of a time he's blown it off. He beats Kivi back when we recall Kivi as well. Kivi's is about 95% provided he has been practising regularly.

I have the RRR dvd that I hold very dear, but I could possibly lend it to you.

[tlc]

I just use a regular umpires whistle. If in the event I don't have the whistle and need to get Cooper to come back in a hurry I use an ultra really high pitched voice and my magic word is treats, that usually works also but I find the whistle does work the best in emergenccy situations. I try not to over use it otherwise it doesn't have the desired effect. I have really found with age that my lot just get better and better, occasionally Cooper will buck the system but on the whole I haven't had to worry about them at all and we go to off lead parks all the time so they know the drill.

[Staranais]

I sympathise but can't help All my rescue Goldies have had bad recall. A lot of people have told me it's because I didn't have them as puppies

My last boy was second hand (got him at 4 or 5 years old), and he had a 99.9% recall. So don't despair, it can be done.

I got him recalling for toys (prey drive), since he was far more interested in them than he was in food.

[dandybrush]

raz's recall is ok...not solid, if he is running at a water hole or is sniffing a good smell he doesnt even look at me when i say his name, apart from that he is mostly good, he doesnt really run off on me anyways

[dandybrush]

but i would like to know what i can do to make him more solid incase i dont want him running at the water :/

[4 Paws]

if you are thinking of going down the whistle recall track checkout this youtube clip out of Pamela Dennisons Training the Whistle Recall DVD

She suggests using a pealess whistle(from sports shops)she reckons silent whistle are broken whistles

I can now recall all 3 of my dogs from fence fightening using this method where as trying to recall them over their barking was a frustrating venture

takes about 1 /2 - 2 weeks or so to be fully relliable and something you need to still practice everyday of their lives

[dee lee]

Saxonpup- I have already been trying all those things you mentioned, unfortunately as happy as she is to please, Honey is a bit slow on the uptake. Bless her but she is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Hopefully we will get there sooner rather than later- especially with help from my doler friends.

1. When she does do her bolt off, what should I do? I dont call her once she has bolted because I know it wont work. She does come back after she has had her fun and I always praise her for that but I feel that I am rewarding her for bolting off.

You aren't provided she doesn't cotton on to "run off + return = treat". Some dogs never do. But if it were me I'd go after her and get her.

I cant go get her- she is usually running round (barking at the sky ). I wish I could, then she'd get the message: bolt off and you go onlead. But by the time I could get to her she is usually running back to me.

I keep thinking that i need to make her understand that running off is wrong. Though perhaps I am looking at it all wrong .

Previously I've used correction in training (not with Honey so much though) and there is no way to apply an aversive in this instance (aside from a long line).

I guess I should be looking at making her think returning to me immediately is good. Which is what I am trying to do..

I have the RRR dvd that I hold very dear, but I could possibly lend it to you.

Thanks Corvus, thats really kind of you, but Im going to look at buying it- it sounds like a very good investment.

4paws- thanks for that, I'll have a close look when I get a whistle!

On our walk today, I took the ball and there wasn't much distraction so Honey was really good. Only problem was, she tends to bolt off for a drink when she is thirsty, its hard to fault her for that but I just dont like her bolting off for it with out me.

[corvus]

I cant go get her- she is usually running round (barking at the sky ). I wish I could, then she'd get the message: bolt off and you go onlead. But by the time I could get to her she is usually running back to me.

I keep thinking that i need to make her understand that running off is wrong. Though perhaps I am looking at it all wrong .

Previously I've used correction in training (not with Honey so much though) and there is no way to apply an aversive in this instance (aside from a long line).

I guess I should be looking at making her think returning to me immediately is good. Which is what I am trying to do..

Nah, you need to teach her "recalls are awesome!" The reason why RRR works so well is because you reward them BIG every single time you recall them. So it doesn't take them long to realise when you start handing out roast beef that paying attention to that recall is a really good idea. Our dogs recall as fast as they can because they know it means they are getting something freaking delicious.

The other thing that I think is super useful in getting dogs to be reliable off leash is to reward them for check ins. Our dogs kind of swan in every few minutes and we pop them treats and tell them to go and play again. It doesn't take long to make this a habit if you're consistent about popping treats every time they choose to check in. We also ask them to do tricks or play with them, and Kivi's favourite thing is to amble up and attach himself to your leg until you give him a treat. It's all about making spending time with you an attractive choice and encouraging them to pay attention to where you are.

In the meantime, put her on a long line or only let her off in fenced areas.

[JulesP]

Have you ever called her when she has bolted off??? It doesn't sound like you have?? it almost sounds like it is the bolting off that is the problem rather than the recall? Lucky you don't have a beagle! OMG a friend's beagle used to have me rolling on the ground laughing the way it used to have a 'beagle moment' and bolt!

How are your sits and drops? I find that sometimes it is more helpful to yell out sit or drop if the dog is bolting. Or even 'leave it'. I tend to yell 'leave it' in those sort of situations ie chasing something.

[dee lee]

Have you ever called her when she has bolted off??? It doesn't sound like you have?? it almost sounds like it is the bolting off that is the problem rather than the recall? Lucky you don't have a beagle! OMG a friend's beagle used to have me rolling on the ground laughing the way it used to have a 'beagle moment' and bolt!

How are your sits and drops? I find that sometimes it is more helpful to yell out sit or drop if the dog is bolting. Or even 'leave it'. I tend to yell 'leave it' in those sort of situations ie chasing something.

I think she may be a beagle in goldie clothing! She would make a great hunting dog if I was able to channel her behaviour for good instead of evil!

You are right, the bolting is the problem. I havent called her after she has bolted, mostly because I am 99% sure that she wont come immediately and dont want to waste the command.

I usually wait until I can see that her fascination has waned a little and then call her. Doesnt work straight away but she will do a roundabout recall.

Actually I did call out STOP the other day and thats what got her back to me (its her strongest command- when we onlead walk she has to stop and sit when I say STOP).

Personality wise she is a bit of a ditz when we train, all enthusiasm with no finesse . She is keen but scatty.

[Kavik]

I also reward for checking in - if they come to me on their own steam they get a treat too

Have you tried recalling when she is a short distance from you, and do it all the time? You can pick a distance, and when she gets to that distance, recall her (I find running the other way as well as rewarding with their favourite treat/toy works well, even with my low drive dog). I find if I do this often, they won't go that far away and will start checking in on their own when they get a certain distance away.

[dee lee]

I also reward for checking in - if they come to me on their own steam they get a treat too

Have you tried recalling when she is a short distance from you, and do it all the time? You can pick a distance, and when she gets to that distance, recall her (I find running the other way as well as rewarding with their favourite treat/toy works well, even with my low drive dog). I find if I do this often, they won't go that far away and will start checking in on their own when they get a certain distance away.

The penny has dropped- Kavik, your post made me realise that I am just not practising it enough.

I thought- yep, I am doing all these things, I wonder when Honey will "get it".

BUT... If Im honest with myself, because of the nature of our exercise sessions, I am not reinforcing the recall enough. Having her stay close because she is playing fetch or trying to keep up is NOT recalling. So therefore, I really have only been concentrating on it for the last week or so.

I may have to rethink our exercising.

[kayla1]

I sympathise but can't help All my rescue Goldies have had bad recall. A lot of people have told me it's because I didn't have them as puppies

I've had rescue dogs with absolutely brilliant recall from day one, whereas some others took longer to train. Not all rescue dogs have bad recall - it really depends on the individual dog.