No Dogs At Cafes. Not Happy!

[pixie_meg]

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2010/03/25/is-o...lated-to-death/

"Mr Carruthers was also warned he could cop a $2000 fine if dogs were found sitting in the large outdoor eating area next to their owners.

“This is part of cafe culture, but we have to tell them they can’t do this anymore – which we were a bit devastated about,” he said.

Mr Brewer said the food act permitted only “assistance animals” in dining and drinking areas.

“In addition under the local laws, dogs are not allowed in the former Noosa and former Caloundra regions while the former Maroochy local law is silent.

“Under state legislation, the operator can face a $2000 fine while under the local law a dog owner can face a $200 on-the-spot fine.”

My favourite local cafe has just told me they've had to ban dogs from their cafe as they're afraid of the fines. Oberon loves going and I love sitting with him at brekky. this is ridiculous. I think cafes are an important part of their socialisation. great for teaching dogs manners.

Where can i see this specific legislation?

[MolassesLass]

Noosa council definition of dog no-go areas is here

There are numeous documents about food but this here has the specific law:

24 Animals and pests

(1) A food business must –

(a) subject to paragraph (b), not permit live animals in areas in which food is handled, other than seafood or other fish or shellfish;

(b) permit an assistance animal only in dining and drinking areas and other areas used by customers;

© take all practicable measures to prevent pests entering the food premises; and

(d) take all practicable measures to eradicate and prevent the harbourage of pests on the food premises and those parts of vehicles that are used to transport food.

(2) In subclause (1), ‘assistance animal’ means an animal referred to in section 9 of the

Disability Discrimination Act 1992 of the Commonwealth.

Editorial note:

Section 9 of the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 refers to a guide dog, a dog trained to

assist a person in activities where hearing is required and any other animal trained to assist a

person to alleviate the effect of a disability.

[spottychick]

How sad. What a boring sterile world we're creating.

My dogs have always gone to cafes with me - one used to sit up straight on a chair and look like part of the group so much that we'd put a coffee cup in front of her. People would take photos. When she was a puppy, if we were still at the cafe when it got dark and colder someone would put her on their lap. As she grew bigger several people would put her on their lap. LOL She was part of the character of the cafe.

[ninahartland]

I know isn't it bloody ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!

When I first got here (from UK )a loooong time ago,lol I couldn't believe there were so many places you can't take your dog to! Thought at the time what the hell have I done I've come to a country where your dog can't even go to the local pub with you!

[ILK]

Yeah it's sad...... Dogs & outdoor cafe's are such a pleasurable experience. Its a damn shame...

[Greytmate]

It's disgusting isn't it. In other states the waiters bring out a bowl of water for the dog. In QLD you are told to leave.

Just one reason why QLD is not a good place to live.

[Greytmate]

It is in state law and council laws.

[Kissindra]

colour me confused - there is at least one doggy cafe in QLD where they have a menu for furry and human customers alike, aparently the stipulation is they must remain in the outside tabled area and not come inside - so if THAT is ok, what is the bloody difference when it comes to regular cafes?

is there some specific permit that must be granted and if so, why aren't they telling cafe owners about it?

[GeckoTree]

Qld policy makers are retarded, it's no secret.

[Aiwa]

Noosa council definition of dog no-go areas is here

There are numeous documents about food but this here has the specific law:

24 Animals and pests

(1) A food business must –

(a) subject to paragraph (b), not permit live animals in areas in which food is handled, other than seafood or other fish or shellfish;

(b) permit an assistance animal only in dining and drinking areas and other areas used by customers;

© take all practicable measures to prevent pests entering the food premises; and

(d) take all practicable measures to eradicate and prevent the harbourage of pests on the food premises and those parts of vehicles that are used to transport food.

(2) In subclause (1), ‘assistance animal’ means an animal referred to in section 9 of the

Disability Discrimination Act 1992 of the Commonwealth.

Editorial note:

Section 9 of the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 refers to a guide dog, a dog trained to

assist a person in activities where hearing is required and any other animal trained to assist a

person to alleviate the effect of a disability.

See, I interpret section b) to mean that whilst assistance animals by law are permitted in any food business, they are only allowed access to standard customer areas ie. Jane Smith can't take her guide dog in to the kitchen. I wouldn't consider it to have any bearing whatsoever on other non-assistance animals. Point a) rules that live animals can't enter food handling areas but no mention of general premises. If there is a ban it must stem from other regulations, be they state gov or council....my money is on particular councils.

[Greytmate]

See, I interpret section b) to mean that whilst assistance animals by law are permitted in any food business, they are only allowed access to standard customer areas ie. Jane Smith can't take her guide dog in to the kitchen. I wouldn't consider it to have any bearing whatsoever on other non-assistance animals. Point a) rules that live animals can't enter food handling areas but no mention of general premises. If there is a ban it must stem from other regulations, be they state gov or council....my money is on particular councils.

Here is the info from the QLD government.

Food Industry Fact Sheet. Number 8.

Food Safety Standard 3.2.2 Clause 24 Animals and Pests

states that:

(1) A food business must:

(a) subject to paragraph (b), not permit live animals in

areas in which food is handled (other than seafood

or other fi sh or shellfi sh); and

(b) permit an assistance animal only in dining and

drinking areas and other areas used by customers.

Most food businesses understand and comply with the

above requirement which prohibits live animals from

being allowed in the parts of a food premises where food

is handled, eg. preparation, service and food storage

areas. However, less understood is the requirement that

animals other than bona-fi de assistance animals are also

prohibited in customer areas of food premises, including

dining areas, drinking areas and supermarkets.

Outdoor, footpath or alfresco dining and drinking areas

must also be kept free from non-permitted animals.

However, it is reasonable to allow a person to take an

animal past one of these areas, via a designated footpath

or walkway.

Assistance animals

The defi nition of assistance animal is contained in the

Disability Discrimination Act 1992. Animals deemed to

be assistance animals under this Act are permitted to be

taken into any customer area of food premises.

An assistance animal is:

 a guide dog

 a dog trained to assist a person in activities where

hearing is required

 any other animal trained to assist a person to alleviate

the effect of a disability.

Food businesses should adopt a practical approach to the

restriction of animals in their customer areas, particularly

where a potential customer claims their animal is an

assistance animal. If a person can demonstrate that they

must have an animal with them at all times to alleviate a

condition or disability, the entry of the person with that

animal should not be prohibited. However, it should be

explained to the person that the animal must be suitably

restrained and is not permitted to leave their personal

space, whilst they remain in the customer area of the

business.

It is important to note that assistance animals are not

permitted to enter non-customer areas such as a kitchen,

store room or other places where food is handled.

For further information

Contact your Local Government Environmental Health

Offi cer if you have any further questions (contact details

can be found in the White Pages).

8

Food Safety Standard 3.2.2 Clause 24 Animals and Pests

Animals in

food premises

Not only does the law suck, but the government admits it is "less understood." Probably because they make it really hard to find the law when you search for it.

But this is only a standard, not an actual law, maybe easy to have changed.

[Odin-Genie]

I take my dogs to outdoor cafes all the time. Last week I drove from Sydney to Coffs Harbour and it was a pleasant surprise to see all McDonalds, KFCs etc allowing us to sit in their outdoor area with our dogs. I hope NSW laws don't ban dogs from outdoor cafes.

[muddles]

Wow, thats news to me - we take our dog to cafe's every month or so (in brisbane and at the coast). What a shame

[Greytmate]

Wow, thats news to me - we take our dog to cafe's every month or so (in brisbane and at the coast). What a shame

I've been booted twice now.

[mita]

colour me confused - there is at least one doggy cafe in QLD where they have a menu for furry and human customers alike, aparently the stipulation is they must remain in the outside tabled area and not come inside - so if THAT is ok, what is the bloody difference when it comes to regular cafes?

is there some specific permit that must be granted and if so, why aren't they telling cafe owners about it?

What I'm about to say, comes 2nd hand....so don't take it for gospel.

Young couple I know who own a young lab, love to go, with him, to cafes in the Milton, Paddington area. They told me that the cafe owners had had to change things in view of the law. They said there's a distance set down....where the dog has to be, from anyone eating. So one cafe has put up a rail where people can tie up their dogs, at this distance. It means the dogs can no longer sit at people's feet & a table (inside or outside).

[Greytmate]

What I'm about to say, comes 2nd hand....so don't take it for gospel.

Young couple I know who own a young lab, love to go, with him, to cafes in the Milton, Paddington area. They told me that the cafe owners had had to change things in view of the law. They said there's a distance set down....where the dog has to be, from anyone eating. So one cafe has put up a rail where people can tie up their dogs, at this distance. It means the dogs can no longer sit at people's feet & a table (inside or outside).

The cafe might do that to get out of trouble. But is it legal to leave a dog tied up unattended on a public street?

I refuse to tie up my dog metres away from where I sit. That isn't safe on a busy inner suburban street.

The law is quite hypocritical when you consider that cafes seem to do nothing at all to remove birds and pest animals from outdoor dining areas, and never seemed to be fined when they fail to keep those animals away from dining areas.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Greytmate

[mita]

What I'm about to say, comes 2nd hand....so don't take it for gospel.

Young couple I know who own a young lab, love to go, with him, to cafes in the Milton, Paddington area. They told me that the cafe owners had had to change things in view of the law. They said there's a distance set down....where the dog has to be, from anyone eating. So one cafe has put up a rail where people can tie up their dogs, at this distance. It means the dogs can no longer sit at people's feet & a table (inside or outside).

The cafe might do that to get out of trouble. But is it legal to leave a dog tied up unattended on a public street?

I refuse to tie up my dog metres away from where I sit. That isn't safe on a busy inner suburban street.

The law is quite hypocritical when you consider that cafes seem to do nothing at all to remove birds and pest animals from outdoor dining areas, and never seemed to be fined when they fail to keep those animals away from dining areas.

Yes, I agree that it just shifts the 'problem' into another grey area re the law & liablity. Not to mention the safety of the dog. No way would I leave our tibbies tied up at a rail.

I guess that was just one way a cafe owner tried to accommodate the clients with dogs (& there's lots of them).

[pixie_meg]

colour me confused - there is at least one doggy cafe in QLD where they have a menu for furry and human customers alike, aparently the stipulation is they must remain in the outside tabled area and not come inside - so if THAT is ok, what is the bloody difference when it comes to regular cafes?

is there some specific permit that must be granted and if so, why aren't they telling cafe owners about it?

What I'm about to say, comes 2nd hand....so don't take it for gospel.

Young couple I know who own a young lab, love to go, with him, to cafes in the Milton, Paddington area. They told me that the cafe owners had had to change things in view of the law. They said there's a distance set down....where the dog has to be, from anyone eating. So one cafe has put up a rail where people can tie up their dogs, at this distance. It means the dogs can no longer sit at people's feet & a table (inside or outside).

that is what my local cafe is suggesting but i don't like it.

[huski]

How ridiculous!

There's no way I would tie my dog up on the street away from my table.

[WoofnHoof]

Probably diverts attention from the real OH&S and hygiene issues that abound in food preparation places, a lot of people don't really understand proper food safety principles so it's simpler to get rid of a perceived risk than take action on the less obvious but infinetly more dangerous food safety issues.