Do Vets Know How To Correctly Body Score?

[leopuppy04]

Visiting friends on the weekend and had a great time with their 7yo BC who I have known since she was a pup.

Was speaking to her 'mum' who said they were initially concerned about her weight, but the vet had told them that she is fine as she had stayed 'consistent' over the past few years and therefore is healthy....

To put it in perspective:

This dog would be about 50cm - the same size as Kinta.... She weighs 23kgs

Kinta (albeit 13mths) weighs 15kgs atm, but wouldn't be over 18kgs once 'filled out'. She is at idea body condition

Leo is around 57cms and weights 22kgs - but should weigh around 23... he has lost a little condition.

Having said that - most people think my dogs are underweight as you can feel their ribs. They are on the 'lower' side of 'ideal' but definitely not underweight....

The BC's ribs can not be felt, she has no waist and is all around OBESE! Since I last saw her, her activity level has dropped considerably - more than what should be expected with age!

Do people actually know how to body score???

Edited September 3, 2007 by leopuppy04

[poodlefan]

Leopuppy:

Was speaking to her 'mum' who said they were initially concerned about her weight, but the vet had told them that she is fine as she had stayed 'consistent' over the past few years and therefore is healthy....

I hear that all the time. Given that so many dogs are obese, from a vet's perspective, she's probably not all that bad.

You are supposed to be able to feel rib without pressure - and hips for that matter. I think Purina do a chart..

ETA: Here's a chart.

Actually weight in kilos doesn't tell you much really. Muscle weighs more than fat anyway.

Edited September 3, 2007 by poodlefan

[sandgrubber]

"Vets" are an extremely diverse group of Homo sapiens. Some of them know more than others :rolleyes: Some of them were asleep in class when the one lecture on canine body weight was given or failed that part of the exam. To my knowledge, there are no institutions in place to ensure that vets do learn the things they didn't pick up in their short time vet school.

[Sayreovi]

Actually weight in kilos doesn't tell you much really. Muscle weighs more than fat anyway.

Yep one of mine weighs about 22 kg and he is only 45cm.

Based on that you would say he is obese :rolleyes: but is actually quite fit, you can feel his ribs and has great muscle tone! I wouldnt want any more weight off him....well maybe a little, still working out the ratios for the BARF diet so he is carrying a touch too much

Only one vet i have been too has commented on their excellent weight rather then telling me too feed them more....i think they are just too used to seeing fat dogs that this becomes the norm and healthy weight dogs are seen as underweight!!

[jesomil]

It is very annoying the amount of dogs i come across that are obviously carrying too much weight but the owners wont do anything about it because the vet says its fine.

The amount of basic dog knowlegde that some vets lack is very disturbing.

[Rappie]

Vets are individuals - don't forget that.

I think the majority of dogs I see (and cats for that matter) are overweight and I believe that about 60% of my clients think I'm just mean for saying that their dear little Fluffy is not just fluffy, but is actually obese. Sometimes saying they are "tubby" gets the message across, but I have had people stare at me blankly when I've suggested "morbidly obese" (and that owner was a human cardiologist). I have actually had a client insist that I do a fine needle aspirate of her JRT's bilateral lumbar tumours because she would not have a bar of them being "love handles". :rolleyes:

Some clients listen - I've had some delay their dog's annual check up until they had got some weight off, just to placate me

I try to keep both my dogs (Min Pin x and a....um....lets call her a JRT x) fit and lean, and one of my own colleagues (same graduation year, very good friend) berates me because they are far too skinny.

[bloss344]

I try to keep both my dogs (Min Pin x and a....um....lets call her a JRT x) fit and lean, and one of my own colleagues (same graduation year, very good friend) berates me because they are far too skinny.

Discussing the weight of my Goldie pup recently with my vet his recommendation was, "you have her lean but she could be leaner. In fact when people start telling you she's too skinny, you will have the right weight"

It's what I aiming for now, she has other ideas.

[Poodle wrangler]

I've also heard the TV vet on the Pet Show (ABC) say she'd rather see a little weight on animals :D. Was ages ago and I think the reasoning was they had some "reserve" if they get sick .

I don't agree. Most pets never miss a meal and few get seriously ill to lose kgs. of weight. Considering so many people don't even see a very overweight dog a having a problem, it's bad general advice IMO.

[poodlefan]

I recall a dog owner bridling when I told him his too was carrying too much weight for agility. "My vet says she's fine" was the response I got. Yep, probably fine for sitting in a back yard, but not for the demands of agility.

He was back for the next intake for rechecking.. glowing with pride. The dog had shed quite a few kilos and his vet had complimented him on her condition.

I recall Christine Zink saying that most vets don't tell people their dogs are too fat because the owner will simply find another vet. :D

[leopuppy04]

I think the majority of dogs I see (and cats for that matter) are overweight and I believe that about 60% of my clients think I'm just mean for saying that their dear little Fluffy is not just fluffy, but is actually obese. Sometimes saying they are "tubby" gets the message across, but I have had people stare at me blankly when I've suggested "morbidly obese" (and that owner was a human cardiologist). I have actually had a client insist that I do a fine needle aspirate of her JRT's bilateral lumbar tumours because she would not have a bar of them being "love handles". :D

My vet is fantastic - he knows the body score etc- and is often spot-on in terms of whether my dogs are ideal or not. Of course as someone else said - weight is not everything, but looking at this dog, I don't understand how they *could* be saying she is 'ideal'.....

Rappie - were you taught how do body score or was that something that you picked up over the years? Do you think some vets are just too shy to state that 'Fido' is carrying a few extra kilo's?

[Rappie]

We were taught throughout our nutrition course - although primarily concerning production animals, it certainly covered companion animals.

Some vets may not feel moderate obesity impacts on an animal, sometimes owners do get terribly offended and sometimes after the 5th or 6th time you've had an earnest talk with the owner they still say "Well I think Fluffy is fine" and it becomes an uphill battle.

I try to keep pups on the lean side, and any breed at risk of hip / elbow dysplasia gets an additional talk. I've seen a number of cases of hip dysplasia in 9mth -12 month old dogs where the owners tried to do everything right with respect to weight, exercise etc, but still ended up with a clinical problem - and I feel it would have been a lot worse if the pups had been fat. I have a body score chart in the consult room, and maybe I'm just blunt, but I have no hesitation saying "The ideal body condition is a 3 (out of 5), and if I'm being really generous I'd say Fluffy is a 4.5 (5 is enormous)". I also have clients who bring their absolutely stunning Boxer, or Weimeraner in because it's "skinny" and want me to find the problem with it. The only problem I can see is that not enough dogs look like that....

[bloss344]

Rappie, I think it's wonderful that you are so honest with your clients. I know the vet's where I go say very little about weight and I usually ask them to check my dog's condition to back up what I think. It's so easy to get complacent about their weight, a small gain often isn't noticeable and it just creeps on slowly and becomes a much larger gain in time.

When I was at the vet last week there was a 36kg lab there and the owners thought it was ok. :D

[Rappie]

When I was at the vet last week there was a 36kg lab there and the owners thought it was ok.

Well, compared to the 52kg Border Collie I saw recently, it was probably was doing (comparatively) OK. :D

[Poodle wrangler]

Our vet has some posters up showing how "treats" add up to sizeable calories for dogs e.g. 3 cubes of cheese for dog= two hamburgers for human (don't quote me, was something like that, but I don't remember exactly). Thought it was really good because you forget the average person is about 60-70kg while your dog can be 1/10 of that! Simple chart, easy to understand.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[Kavik]

Our vet has some posters up showing how "treats" add up to sizeable calories for dogs e.g. 3 cubes of cheese for dog= two hamburgers for human (don't quote me, was something like that, but I don't remember exactly). Thought it was really good because you forget the average person is about 60-70kg while your dog can be 1/10 of that!

My vet has that poster up too, as well as one showing body condition - though that chart is rather hard to interpret.

[leopuppy04]

I have a body score chart in the consult room, and maybe I'm just blunt, but I have no hesitation saying "The ideal body condition is a 3 (out of 5), and if I'm being really generous I'd say Fluffy is a 4.5 (5 is enormous)". I also have clients who bring their absolutely stunning Boxer, or Weimeraner in because it's "skinny" and want me to find the problem with it. The only problem I can see is that not enough dogs look like that....

Funny you mention that Rappie... I have heard many people look at the BS chard and say - Oh that's mean - NOBODY could keep their dog at the supposed 'ideal' weight - you couldn't feed them *anything*..... whilst I understand that it is difficult to loose the weight off the animal, I find it surprising at people's misconceptions of what a dog should look like!

Our vet has some posters up showing how "treats" add up to sizeable calories for dogs e.g. 3 cubes of cheese for dog= two hamburgers for human (don't quote me, was something like that, but I don't remember exactly). Thought it was really good because you forget the average person is about 60-70kg while your dog can be 1/10 of that! Simple chart, easy to understand.

That's interesting - i've not seen that before! I must be naughty though - my dogs get cheese, devon etc as training treats :D - but then I do ration it out of their dinner and try to use 'healthier' options