Our Little Monster - Now Biting

[catandgrant]

Hello All,

As I received so much great advice and encouragement from my last post i thought i'd have another crack at it.

My 9 week old cocker, Casper has over the past few days started to get quite bitey. When we pat him he starts of gentle but then starts mouthing and then trying to nip. Hi tried my hands or arms first. I say no and move away and then he actually comes after me. He will basically chase after me nipping at my legs or anything else he can get his teeth onto!

I have tried a few things. Saying no in a low tone voice. This didnt work at all. It actually made him more determined.

I have tried yelping as if in pain. This maybe worked the first time but after that the novely wore off.

And now i am not sure what to do. It seems to be only me. My partner just seems to get all the love with no bites.

I was so upset this morning i had a small cry. It really feels like he hates me.

I would really like to nip this in the bud asap. We certainly dont want this escelating into something bigger.

Thanks in advance guys

[lucylotto]

I have just been thru this with x2 pups. I growled 'no' plus minus yelp (cry) at mine as tho I was their dog mother or another pup they were hurting (tried to speak their language). If they were chasing my legs as I was walking I would growl, stamp my foot and stop in my tracks until they stopped. This worked well for me.

Good luck with it.

[CrazyWestie]

Oh dont be sad. Its a puppy thing. My little monster went through the same thing, it was sooo anoying.

She would nibble my fingers when we were playing so I would fold my arms, turn my head and ignore her (someone on here told me to do that) and it worked, she would just play with something else. She hated being ignored.

Dont worry, they eventually grow out of it. Hang in there.

[catandgrant]

I have just been thru this with x2 pups. I growled 'no' plus minus yelp (cry) at mine as tho I was their dog mother or another pup they were hurting (tried to speak their language). If they were chasing my legs as I was walking I would growl, stamp my foot and stop in my tracks until they stopped. This worked well for me.

Good luck with it.

Hey!

Thanks so much for the advice. Silly question but how do you growl specifically? Do you growl like a dog would? I must practice this!

[LeeJane]

the trainer told me to turn my back to my dog and ignore her when she bites/chew my hands, because that's exactly what the mother would do to her puppies when they bite her. It worked for me

Oh, growling and yelping didnt work for my dog.

good luck!

[Kirra_Bomber_Zeus]

Im in the same boat too He seemed to respond to me 'yelping' for a while (although Im sure my neighbours thought I was killing my puppy because I reckon I sounded so much like one ) but sometimes he just keeps going and going, and like you said, chasing me to bite my legs.

He has definately got a bit better (he started doing it at 9 weeks, he's now 11 weeks and only really does it if he's super excited.) Because of this I have tried to separate him from the other dogs and us when he gets too excited to calm him down. Seems to be working (although this morning he was a complete tornado and nothing I did could convince him to settle )

So, can lots of people reply and tell us that they will grow out of it. please?

[Cosmolo]

Whie it is a developmental phase- many dogs do not grow out of it because the behaviour becomes fun. I know many adult dogs who still continue to mouth because they have never been stopped. My preference for most pups is to provide a correction of some kind and then 30-60 seconds later, redirect to a toy that they can chew. The type and level of correction varies from puppy to puppy- are you attending puppy school?

Most mother dogs generally would not ignore a 'rude' mouthing puppy- they would warn and then correct if the warning was not heeded.

[woosydiver]

This thread has great timing, I was just about to post the same question.

The yelping only worked a short time.

Me barking at her didn't work unless I was too aggressive & upset her [i only did it the once]

And just this morning I thought "this is enough, I'll have a look on the DOL forum"

I just tried walking away & ignoring her, it seemed to work after a couple of times, the 3rd time she came back to me she quietly snuggled up [nice]

I'll be continueing this line of training.

Thanks for the thread & replies.

Steve

[claireybell]

I have just been thru this with x2 pups. I growled 'no' plus minus yelp (cry) at mine as tho I was their dog mother or another pup they were hurting (tried to speak their language). If they were chasing my legs as I was walking I would growl, stamp my foot and stop in my tracks until they stopped. This worked well for me.

Good luck with it.

Hey!

Thanks so much for the advice. Silly question but how do you growl specifically? Do you growl like a dog would? I must practice this!

Growl like a dog. First time I did it i felt like a real goose! But you get over it. My cocker figured it out pretty quickly. My beagle on the other hand?

[maximum]

I say "BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH" in as low a voice as I can manage, and get increasingly louder if Max (22 weeks old) doesn't stop. This usually works for every correction. It really does sound like a growl!

And yep, they do grow out of it, if you perservere!

At the moment, Max only mouths/bites when he's REALLY excited.

[anthony mazzeri]

Don't growl or yelp. I've been closely watching my new Cocker pup with my older 18 month boy and any growling or any noise like a yelp/yap is a signal of of challenge = 'game-on'. The growl from the older one, the yelp/yap from the younger one.

Distract instead. It's been quite interesting watching the older Cocker when he doesn't feel like having his ears pulled or getting into a wrestle when the little one starts jumping on him and sinking her teeth into him. He suddenly finds something in the grass or dirt that is tremendously interesting. Being a Cocker pup, she wants whatever he's got, so quickly switches from mouthy-mode to sniffing-mode to see what he's got that's more interesting than her. Works for him every time. Doesn't growl or make any noise at all when he wants her to stop. Just shows intense interest in something else. Quite the opposite, if he does growl at her it means he's up for a wrestle and off they go.

So distraction doesn't mean getting the pups attention and waving a stuffed toy (or whatever's at hand) around in its face. It means totally ignoring the pup and playing with the toy/etc yourself with great gusto. Much more fun than what the pup wants to do with you!

Also, my pup only ever did the teething and mouthing and wrestling with the other dog, never with me (unlike when I got him first as a pup, without another dog it was all focussed on me). It means your pup sees you as its play companion, not your partner, so I wouldn't take that as something to get upset about. Quite the contrary to you feeling like he hates you, he actually likes you better.

[Red Fox]

Our breeder gave us a copy of Ian Dunbar's book "After you get your puppy" There is a lot of info in there on bite inhabition, when and how to teach it. The main idea is to yelp and if that doesn't work you call the puppy a bully and leave the room. The puppy quickly works out that the game (and fun) ends as soon as they bite! You then leave the puppy alone to think about it for a minute or two, come out call the puppy and tell it to sit and lay down (to make up) and then resume the game.

We did this and it seems to have worked as Kei was quite 'nippy' for a while. Bite inhabition is an ongoing thing though, you need to continue teaching it through-out the dogs life.

I think the book may also be able to be downloaded online so you may want to google it.

Good luck and hope this helps

[bozthepup]

Hi catandgrant

totally and utterly empathise and sympathise - it got so bad for us, I thought hubby was going to send him back to the breeder.

We tried everything (see 'puppy biting - nothing working' link back a few pages http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...155873&hl=) - but he did grow out of it.

It coincided with him starting puppy school and going to stay with another pup a week older while we were away for work - so it was either bite inhibition, growing older or a combo of both. Try to have patience and don't let it get you down.

Boz still play bites but it's a gentle nibble and he knows now. Heck, he can even drive a boat without biting !

[Nicole...]

We had exactly the same problems with our cocker when she was a bub, but I am happy to say that at 19 months, she is an absolute delight that we have no dramas with... there is light at the end of the tunnel!!!!!! I have a couple of pieces of advice for you...

Firstly, cockers need to know who is the boss. I think they have a good understanding of just how adorable they are and as such tend to run with it. Make sure that Casper knows you are the boss. All of the usual hierachy things are important, pretend to eat their food and give them what is left over, don't let them up on the couch or bed, make them wait while you walk through doorways first, etc. These things should all follow over into you getting more respect and more response to your corrections. My little bugger used to grab me by the trouser leg and pull/growl if I dared tell her off initially, but making those sorts of changes stopped her in her tracks.

As for the biting, we used the yelp approach. Cockers are a very mouthy breed. Their job is to go and retrieve the bird you just shot down and bring it back to you unharmed. Your yelping helps them to realise what amount of pressure is painful and learn to mouth softly. My dog greets me everyday with a big mouthing up and down my arms, you don't feel a single tooth in the process she is so soft... different story as a pup though! As a pup, if she bit too hard I would say ouch quite loud (my husband's voice was too low for this to work so he had to yelp like a puppy would). If she continued to bite hard immediately after, the second time we would yelp and then remove our hand, cross arms and look away from her or get up and move away. Don't underestimate the power of your attention. Cockers are very people motivated and once they realise that biting you takes your attention away, they soon realise it's not a good thing to do. We had read this in a book to do to stop dogs from jumping up on people and didn't see how it would work. Then we were at my parents house and Lomani was playing with their corgi. She got a bit too boisterous and his reaction was the same. He stayed sitting next to her but looked away from her and her behaviour immediately quietened and was much more sedate when he gave her his attention back and they resumed play.

Come join us in the cocker sub forum... sometimes it helps to talk to people who understand this crazy breed!

[catandgrant]

We had exactly the same problems with our cocker when she was a bub, but I am happy to say that at 19 months, she is an absolute delight that we have no dramas with... there is light at the end of the tunnel!!!!!! I have a couple of pieces of advice for you...

Firstly, cockers need to know who is the boss. I think they have a good understanding of just how adorable they are and as such tend to run with it. Make sure that Casper knows you are the boss. All of the usual hierachy things are important, pretend to eat their food and give them what is left over, don't let them up on the couch or bed, make them wait while you walk through doorways first, etc. These things should all follow over into you getting more respect and more response to your corrections. My little bugger used to grab me by the trouser leg and pull/growl if I dared tell her off initially, but making those sorts of changes stopped her in her tracks.

As for the biting, we used the yelp approach. Cockers are a very mouthy breed. Their job is to go and retrieve the bird you just shot down and bring it back to you unharmed. Your yelping helps them to realise what amount of pressure is painful and learn to mouth softly. My dog greets me everyday with a big mouthing up and down my arms, you don't feel a single tooth in the process she is so soft... different story as a pup though! As a pup, if she bit too hard I would say ouch quite loud (my husband's voice was too low for this to work so he had to yelp like a puppy would). If she continued to bite hard immediately after, the second time we would yelp and then remove our hand, cross arms and look away from her or get up and move away. Don't underestimate the power of your attention. Cockers are very people motivated and once they realise that biting you takes your attention away, they soon realise it's not a good thing to do. We had read this in a book to do to stop dogs from jumping up on people and didn't see how it would work. Then we were at my parents house and Lomani was playing with their corgi. She got a bit too boisterous and his reaction was the same. He stayed sitting next to her but looked away from her and her behaviour immediately quietened and was much more sedate when he gave her his attention back and they resumed play.

Come join us in the cocker sub forum... sometimes it helps to talk to people who understand this crazy breed!

Wow!! Thank you so much. That really is great advice. The thing i love about this forum is knowing other people have been in the same boat and that it can be fixed.

I tried the yelping last night and it still didnt work. My other half did the growling and it worked a treat. Didnt for me though. I just cant get it right.

I think i will try the ouch again tonight because no doubt he will try it on again.

I had him almost hanging in the air this morning as he was attached to my shoe!

Luckily he is so adorable it is forgiveable

Also, trying to put a pic on but its not working. Any ideas? Apparently i am "not allowed to upload this type of file"!!

[dogon]

Hi. Wish I had some advice. We're are going through a horror time atm with Rodney and are trying a bit of everything mentioned here I believe it's all about waiting this period out BUT sometimes I do wonder when it'll end. Good luck to you, wish us luck too

[maximum]

Hi. Wish I had some advice. We're are going through a horror time atm with Rodney and are trying a bit of everything mentioned here I believe it's all about waiting this period out BUT sometimes I do wonder when it'll end. Good luck to you, wish us luck too

I had Max's dog trainer around on the weekend. Short story is that Max is walking ALL over me and I have to be a lot more firm with him. And boy, didn't I pay for it after dog trainer had left and I continued 'taking the hard line'! Max peed and pooed everywhere he wasn't supposed to ALL day on Saturday. Little shit blatently did it in front of me. Back to normal by Sunday night (crossed fingers!), but man, he certainly let me know he wasn't pleased with the extra discipline!!!

[anthony mazzeri]

I had Max's dog trainer around on the weekend. Short story is that Max is walking ALL over me and I have to be a lot more firm with him.

Will that change who you are? I mean, are you a firm personality to begin with or do you now have to become one?

I have a dispute with this sort of advice for two reasons:

1) Asking a person to change their personality and maintain an attitude which does not come naturally to them will surely lead to them not being able to maintain it consistently. I can personally attest to this as a fact. And consistency is the key to success or failure.

2) Leading on from (1), it's very easy easy for a person/trainer who has success because they have a firm and dominating personality to tell a person who isn't the firm and dominating type to become firm and dominating - and voila the training will work for you too! Too easy in fact, which is why the advice is given so freely. Declaring that a timid person should alter their personality to suit your training style is a major flaw. Most of us aren't cut out to be Sergeant Majors barking out commands and demanding respect and discipline at all times, otherwise every army or organisation in the world would be all chiefs and no indians. There are other methods of training which don't require easy-going personalities to change themselves into hard-arsed disciplinarians. Clicker training is one example which requires no firmess/dominance to produce positive results.

Every person's personality is different like a box of chocolates and that's all I have to say about that.

[Cosmolo]

I might tell someone to be firm without meaning they have to change their personality Anthony so i don't think its fair to generalise based on a trainer teling someone to be firm- it might even be being firm with not giving in to a pup (ignoring etc) Being firm doesn't always mean being a dominant seargent major type!!

Hope you will have a positive update in a week or two after trying the trainers suggestions

[catandgrant]

Thanks everyone.

Over the weekend we thought he had made a major improvemnet but night night he was back to his ways again. Its like he thinks its funny to watch me squirm and walk away from him.

The thing i am worried about is if i am walking away from him is this telling him that he has won?

I can't exactly walk away calmy as half the time is is attached to my leg so sometimes i have to make s small dash for the door.

Im just really worried he is feeling dominant over me.

If we yelp, growl or shout etc he doesnt take any notice. In fact soemtimes it makes him worse!

God, is there an end in sight??!!