Chronic Biting

[Suki]

Hi everyone (first post) I truley hope someone can help me out!

I have an 11.5 week old male Golden Retriever named Haru. He has this chronic biting problem that has got me worried and stressed about.

Last night i was playing with him on the carpet inside and he grabbed hold of my arms and his little needle teeth pulled off skin and a little bit of blood was seeping out, but not much. I know hes till a little puppy but i need to nip this in the bud before he gets any bigger as I am only small so when he gets big I can see him over powering me.

I feel scared sometimes to play with him because he just bites and its rare that he gives us a lick its as though he just wants to bite. I thought it came down to teething but now its jus so frustrating.

He has many toys of different textures in which he loves but he pulls at my clothes. pulls my hair. bites my nose, ears and fingers and hes just being so, so difficult!

I have tried saying to him 'NO" firmly and ignoring him which works and then i go to pat him and hes biting me again, I have tried the bending down growling roughly and he thinks its all a big game.

I also noticed that if i feed him chicken with the Eukanuba dry dog biscuits he goes nuts and gets into this hyperactive, physcho, running, growling, barking mood in which i dont dare to go near him.

When I fed him green veges carrots and chicken he was so much more sober but still in that biting mood but he was not hyperactive. Has anyone else had this problem before?

The first time I did this he jus sat on me and let me pat him for at least 3 minutes without biting.

Can anyone help with the biting issue??

[Erny]

I would recommend that you enrole yourself and Haru to puppy school - being shown how to manage the mouthing that Haru is doing is by far (IMO) the best and clearest form of learning.

It's not just a matter of teething, the reasons for puppies mouthing. It is a normal action and is about jaw development and also setting themselves up in play for how their responses should be for when they are older. So yes, it is important that you learn to know how to manage it whilst your puppy goes through this development stage and so that your puppy can be learning from you the responses and interactions that are acceptable.

What you do depends on the sensitivities of your pup. You can start by crying "ouch!", putting an upset look on your face (yes - pups and dogs are more tuned to body and face language and sounds/tones rather than the actual words we use) and walking away (stopping the play that perhaps he was enjoying before) and perhaps just calmly then putting him in his puppy pen to chill out a little. I find this is a good place to start, but quite often isn't enough to cover all situations, but at least until you get to puppy school with him it will give you a 'tool' to begin with.

If you let us know where you are located, I'm sure amongst us we'll be able to suggest some puppy school choices for you to attend.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Erny

[labbylicious]

Can you do a search in the threads on here for biting? There are many of them that contain a wealth of information for you that may help

Just had a look.. if you go to the search button up the top, then select "more search options" then type "biting" in the search field and select puppy problems in the drop down menu.. it will bring up heaps of threads

[all that glitters]

My pup ignores the "NO!" and being walked off on, as well! If I ignore or walk away, she just bites my ankles which hurts. I've found that a very high pitch crying sound, coupled with a sad upset face (yes it tends to work more often than not!) works better than the "NO" etc.

Otherwise I leave the room, or make her "sit" which snaps her out of it a bit

[Suki]

I would recommend that you enrole yourself and Haru to puppy school - being shown how to manage the mouthing that Haru is doing is by far (IMO) the best and clearest form of learning.

It's not just a matter of teething, the reasons for puppies mouthing. It is a normal action and is about jaw development and also setting themselves up in play for how their responses should be for when they are older. So yes, it is important that you learn to know how to manage it whilst your puppy goes through this development stage and so that your puppy can be learning from you the responses and interactions that are acceptable.

What you do depends on the sensitivities of your pup. You can start by crying "ouch!", putting an upset look on your face (yes - pups and dogs are more tuned to body and face language and sounds/tones rather than the actual words we use) and walking away (stopping the play that perhaps he was enjoying before) and perhaps just calmly then putting him in his puppy pen to chill out a little. I find this is a good place to start, but quite often isn't enough to cover all situations, but at least until you get to puppy school with him it will give you a 'tool' to begin with.

If you let us know where you are located, I'm sure amongst us we'll be able to suggest some puppy school choices for you to attend.

Thanks Erny for your advice, I am out ipswich way in QLD i might try and set up a puppy pen insiderather than putting him outside, he gets very upet and howles at the door and bashes at the glass. I dont let him (painstakingly) until he quietens down that way he will eventually learn his howling wont work.

Can you do a search in the threads on here for biting? There are many of them that contain a wealth of information for you that may help :cool:

Just had a look.. if you go to the search button up the top, then select "more search options" then type "biting" in the search field and select puppy problems in the drop down menu.. it will bring up heaps of threads

Thanks Labbylicious , the problem is, after doing that search it comes up with the same results. I feel like I have tried everyones advice and I feel as though it is not working. I was adviced to take him to puppy preschool by my vet on his third vaccination so I have been hanging out for that. He gets his third in 2 weeks.

My pup ignores the "NO!" and being walked off on, as well! If I ignore or walk away, she just bites my ankles which hurts. I've found that a very high pitch crying sound, coupled with a sad upset face (yes it tends to work more often than not!) works better than the "NO" etc.

Otherwise I leave the room, or make her "sit" which snaps her out of it a bit

haha then you know where im coming from! I think my little boy thinks im lower in the pecking chain although I have done tons of research on training and tried to interpret different methods when some dont work. Its so much harder than it seems! I try the 'sit' but oh my gosh when hes in that hyper mood theres nothing stopping him! But all the other times he will sit and he's all attack again haha.

I might ask my vet and see if I can actually start him at puppyschool earlier it may be the best solution at this stage...

thanks everyone

Edited May 31, 2009 by Suki

[labbylicious]

How long have you tried each method?

I would think at least a week to really show the pup you mean it and are being consistent rather than changing from one method to the other each 2 or 3 days

[Suki]

How long have you tried each method?

I would think at least a week to really show the pup you mean it and are being consistent rather than changing from one method to the other each 2 or 3 days

I've been trying it over a five day period and I've always done the get up and ignore when he bites from the start but i just feel as though it is not working because when I go back to him and tell him to sit, he plunks him bum down and when i pat him he just bites.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i would stop patting him for a while and see if his behaviour changes.

[luvsdogs]

Most puppy preschools take puppies from 8-16 weeks of age. You want one that will only let a couple of puppies off lead at a time & not have a free for all as bully puppies have the reverse effect that you want, whether your puppy is the bully or the one being bullied. Tilba went between her 2nd & 3rd vac. All the puppies are in the same boat.

When he bites you should give out a high pitched "ouch" like a puppy would if one of his litter mates had bitten too hard. Play stops. Let him think about it for a minute & play with him again. You need to be consistant. As Dr Ian Dunbar says, puppies bite & thank goodness they do.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/puppy-biting

[Diva]

I think my little boy thinks im lower in the pecking chain although I have done tons of research on training and tried to interpret different methods when some dont work. Its so much harder than it seems! I try the 'sit' but oh my gosh when hes in that hyper mood theres nothing stopping him! But all the other times he will sit and he's all attack again haha.

I might ask my vet and see if I can actually start him at puppyschool earlier it may be the best solution at this stage...

I wouldn't put it down to a 'pecking order' issue at his age, some puppies are just mouthier than others and to him it's a great game. Some of the things you are doing sound like they are unintentionally reinforcing the behaviour, making it more fun - like the growly noises - and if you are switching between different methods you'll not be giving any of them time to really work.

I think you need some help from a trainer, but for what it's worth the reaction that has always worked best for me is to stop interacting and walk away when he bites. Return to play after a few minutes, if he bites again you get up and walk away again, immediately. It's the same as the time out except you are leaving, it's instantaneous because you don't need to go through the process of putting him in the pen/outside, and it doesn't raise his excitement level as some of the other responses can. Mark the undesired behaviour with an ouch if you want, but nothing else, all attention ceases. You can expect the biting to get worse before it gets better - it's called an extinction burst - it's a behaviour that's worked for him before so he's just going to try harder for a while before giving up on it. Consistency and timing in your response is the key, and not accidently rewarding the behaviour you don't want. Play calmly with him, don't rev him up until you train an 'off' switch.

Re your feeding regime, some dry foods have been alleged to make hyper dogs much more so, never had it happen myself but have heard it asserted. If you've noticed it, avoid those foods.

[all that glitters]

I think my little boy thinks im lower in the pecking chain although I have done tons of research on training and tried to interpret different methods when some dont work. Its so much harder than it seems! I try the 'sit' but oh my gosh when hes in that hyper mood theres nothing stopping him! But all the other times he will sit and he's all attack again haha.

I might ask my vet and see if I can actually start him at puppyschool earlier it may be the best solution at this stage...

I wouldn't put it down to a 'pecking order' issue at his age, some puppies are just mouthier than others and to him it's a great game. Some of the things you are doing sound like they are unintentionally reinforcing the behaviour, making it more fun - like the growly noises - and if you are switching between different methods you'll not be giving any of them time to really work.

I think you need some help from a trainer, but for what it's worth the reaction that has always worked best for me is to stop interacting and walk away when he bites. Return to play after a few minutes, if he bites again you get up and walk away again, immediately. It's the same as the time out except you are leaving, it's instantaneous because you don't need to go through the process of putting him in the pen/outside, and it doesn't raise his excitement level as some of the other responses can. Mark the undesired behaviour with an ouch if you want, but nothing else, all attention ceases. You can expect the biting to get worse before it gets better - it's called an extinction burst - it's a behaviour that's worked for him before so he's just going to try harder for a while before giving up on it. Consistency and timing in your response is the key, and not accidently rewarding the behaviour you don't want. Play calmly with him, don't rev him up until you train an 'off' switch.

Re your feeding regime, some dry foods have been alleged to make hyper dogs much more so, never had it happen myself but have heard it asserted. If you've noticed it, avoid those foods.

What is walking away is impossible because pup starts attacking your pant legs/slippers :p Thats what happens to me!

[Diva]

What is walking away is impossible because pup starts attacking your pant legs/slippers :p Thats what happens to me!

;) I'd go out a door and gently shut it in his face. Peeling him off your pants if necessary, and making the itneraction as low intensity as possible, no eye contact or talking etc, just gentle shunning.

[Suki]

hmmm anyone know of any good puppy preschools around redbank plains on weekends or possibly mount gravatt in qld??

[Diva]

hmmm :D anyone know of any good puppy preschools around redbank plains on weekends or possibly mount gravatt in qld??

Suki you'll probably get more response to that question if you post it as a new thread in the training forum.

[muddles]

hmmm :D anyone know of any good puppy preschools around redbank plains on weekends or possibly mount gravatt in qld??

Hi Suki

We were quite happy with the one run from Pets City at Mt Gravatt. We did the 8 week program. Lots of structured and supervised play (no free for alls) for the pups as well as teaching us

Pet City Puppy School - Ziggys

We also used Bonnie's at Mt Gravatt as well. The approach there was different, and less structured

gills

edit - wrong pet store, oops

Edited June 3, 2009 by gills

[Suki]

Awesome everyone thanks for the reply... he has pretty much stopped biting now it's so good all i get now is alot of licks in which i dont mind big puppy dog lickies up my face haha!! and Gills i will check into that one!