Anti-barking Collars Info Required

[ruthless]

Can someone please give me some info about anti-barking collars?

I got home to find a note from the ranger. Our neighbour, rather than talk to us, has made a complaint and I suspect Chopper may be the culprit. Obviously, we'll be making sure we get proof, but in case this is the issue I'd like to know what our options are. I've asked the other neighbours and they said they've no issue with our dogs.

FYI Chopper gets walked for 40 mins and I also throw the ball for him for 20 mins. When we leave for work he's given his breakfast and a kong/everlasting treat ball/rawhide/bone to keep him occupied. There's also several toys in his run. There are barking dogs in nearly every second house, so it's possible that one of them is setting him off.

[dogsforall]

sonic ones you hang near their kennels or collar work for some and some just try and out bark them

i haven't used the zappy ones

if your dog dislikes citronella they are good too

i have found some respond to one but not other

[ruthless]

I've been reading some other threads and I keep seeing people say that the cause of the barking needs to be addressed before a solution can be found. But if it only happens when we're not home how do we find the right solution?

[Erny]

Can someone please give me some info about anti-barking collars? ... I've asked the other neighbours and they said they've no issue with our dogs.

Ruthless has asked me to pop on in here .....

I think the first couple of things you need to establish are :

• Is the complaint issued a genuine one (ie Are your dog/ss really nuisance barking)?
  
• If it is, WHICH dog is barking
  

There could be a lot of time spent in your enquiries when there might not even be a problem to deal with.

However :

Have you spoken to the Ranger to find out some more details? The person who lodged the complaint would have (I expect) had to have given some account of the problem, such as when the barking seems to start (eg. time of day) and for how long. The person lodging the complaint may even have identified something which might have started it off (eg. when people walk past etc. etc. etc.)

I think that's your first port of call.

From the above information you might gain some idea of how long it is before your dog/s begin barking after you've left. Armed with that knowledge you can then set the situation up. IE Prepare to leave but instead of heading off somewhere, duck around the corner and listen. If you know your dogs' individual barks well enough, you may even be able to identify who the 'culprit' is. That will identify which dog you need to address.

An alternative to all of that is to either purchase or hire a 'spy' or 'security' cam ..... This will not only answer all of the above, but if the nuisance barking is not coming from your dogs, you'll also have evidence of that.

It's pretty hard to treat a problem unless (a) you know there is a problem and (b) you know which dog is exhibiting the problem. It's pretty hard to address the cause of the issue unless you can know what is triggering the barking behaviour.

Armed with this information, it will be just a little bit easier to help you, not only here but also in the event you elect to consult a trainer/behaviourist who may be able to eventuate a conclusion a lot faster than is possible over the net. The latter is recommended, given you've received notification of complaint from the Council, speed is of the essence. But if you cover the above first, you might find you don't need these services if it is that your dogs are not the problem.

But - as to your enquiry about anti-bark collars.

There are the JetAir collars - these spray a sharp spray of cold compressed air. I prefer them over the Citronella anti-bark collars - in fact I'm not particularly fond of the latter. Contrary to some belief, Citronella is toxic and some dogs can have an adverse reaction to it. In addition, the smell of the Citronella remains on the dog's coat .... well after the barking behaviour ceases. Success rate for the JetAir collars is about 65-70%. Don't quote me, but I think I recall reading that was a higher percentage than that of the Citronella. Can't be certain - so take this latter bit of info with a grain of salt until it can be proven that I remember correctly.

There are also the electronic Anti-Bark collars. I believe these are the collars that have the higher liklihood of success in solving barking issues - assuming an anti-bark collar is the appropriate method to address the problem in the first place. There are numerous brands, but the ones I prefer are those that have variable stim level settings. Steve (K9 Force) sells two or three varities and if you found it an appropriate method to address your dog/s barking, I'd recommend you email him for advice and prices.

Remember though ..... if the barking (assuming the allegation is proven) is due to something such as anxiety or boredom, addressing the symptom is not going to address the cause, and this may make the issue worse or may serve to manifest itself in other ways. If the barking relates to anxiety, I don't advocate use of anti-bark collars .... particularly in instances where I have not first had opportunity to observe the dog first-hand.

Hope the above has been a little bit helpful. Difficult to be specific when we don't even know at this stage if there IS a problem and if there is, with which dog, when or why. So as per above, first thing's first ..... take steps to establish as to whether you really have a problem to deal with or not.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Erny

[ruthless]

Thanks Erny

I presumed it was Chopper cause he did it in our last house. We'd been off work for about 4 wks last Christmas and the day we both went back to work he barked from the time we left till the time we got home without stopping. Our neighbour nicely called in and told us. We had an issue with him and Angel fighting as well so we kept them in the house during the day for the rest of our time there. We moved house about 2 months ago and built dog runs in the back garden. One morning instead of putting them in their runs just as I was walking out the door, I put them out about 10 mins before I left . As I was getting ready I heard continuous barking and when I looked it was Chopper. My OH says he was only doing it cause he knew I was still in the house, but it did make me think, I hope he doesn't do that all the time.

So, even though I haven't spoken to the ranger yet, I have a good idea that Chopper barking may be the reason they were called. If it is, I'll set up a video camera and see if we can get proof. Our neighbour on the other side says there was one day last week when they were carrying on, but it didn't bother her. She's got 2 dogs and they used to complain about her dogs too.

[Erny]

If what you suspect is correct, there are a few possibilities. Either :-

• Chopper is barking for attention. If this is the case, you need to investigate how or where his goal is being achieved. Removal of the goal is essential and an anti-bark collar may well be prescribed if ignoring does not achieve results.
  
• Chopper is exhibiting separation related behaviour. I don't necessarily mean "Separation Anxiety" in its technical term (although it could be). Some dogs exhibit anxiety in the form of vocalising simply when no-one's around because no-one's around. Some dogs exhibit the behaviour only when a particular person is absent. The latter is SA. The former is lack of independance.
  
• Chopper is vocalising due to 'denied access'. This is where the dog 'creates' when it knows the person is there, but it cannot gain access.
  

An independance training program/regime is normally prescribed in the latter two cases.

In all cases I prescribe leadership skills (assuming investigation reveals where these might be lacking). And in all of the above cases, reward when the dog is being quiet.

If you do employ an anti-bark collar, be sure to get one that works off vibration and not off sound. Otherwise, another dog barking nearby may result in Chopper receiving the stimulation when it was not he who deserved it. Also, be aware that Chopper might not appreciate the proximity of your other dog when he receives the stimulation from the anti-bark (especially the electronic - not because it is severe, but because it is less obvious where the stim came from) and there is a chance of reaction towards your other dog as a result.

[ruthless]

Cool, well I'll figure out what the actual problem is and take it from there. Chopper turning on Angel isn't an issue though, they're in separate runs and Ivan has the rest of the garden. Thanks again Erny

[ruthless]

The ranger finally rang me back and the first thing she asked was do I have a dog

She said she called to the house and didn't see or hear any! Our house has a side driveway with an aluminum gate which leads into the back garden. Usually Ivan is lying there and I was sure if someone called to the door he would bark. Really surprised that he didn't. What a great guard dog!

So, off to a good start there. I asked her why she called and she said a neighbour had complained that our dogs were barking constantly, but she said that's obviously an exaggeration. I told her I knew which neighbour it was as we were warned that she was a miserable cow and makes a habit of complaining and she was quite interested to hear that. Obviously she has to go through the whole process and the neighbour will have to keep a bark diary, but hopefully we'll sort out the problem in the meantime and she can go and suck on an egg

Anyway, the ranger was really nice, just warned me that the dogs registration needs to be updated since we moved house but if I've any question I can call her.

[kermat]

Hi Ruthless - keeping a diary yourself might be useful as well. We've recently had a neighbour pop a letter in our gate (it was a standard template and some information they'd obviously printed off the council website) regarding our dogs barking - it is only one dog and we are certain its Judd as he's only 1 year old and tends to get carried away when playing, especially if Max has had enough and doesn't want to play anymore.

Basically we just record times when we're not home, and if we're home and Judd starts barking we record that too (and we stop the barking of course!!). If we're home and the dogs are not barking, we make a note of that, so if the complaint gets more serious we can prove the dogs weren't barking during particular periods. And we also record the times we take them for walkies or out to the park. My husband also went and parked his car around the corner one day and sat there for awhile listening - strangely enough, no barking!!

Its frustrating when someone makes a complaint anonymously. I suppose I can understand if you don't know your neighbours, they might be worried about your reaction, but I'd really prefer that if Judd's barking was proving a nuisance, that our neighbours would come and have a friendly chat with us. We've spoken to our immediate next door neighbours and they have said they haven't noticed the barking being a problem. Its particularly frustrating from the point of feedback - Judd IS quite vocal and I'm not doubting he barks when we're not home, so we bought an electronic anti-bark collar (an Innotek, with different level settings), however we can't ask whether its made an improvement, because we can't identify the complaintant!! :rolleyes:

[ruthless]

Oh, I know exactly who made the complaint. The ranger as good as told me when she said exactly which dogs it was and how they were in "cages". We've only one neighbour who can see into our garden and everyone including our new landlord warned us about them being a pain in the ass! If she had said something to us we would have addressed the issue, no offence taken, no drama. Instead, she's gone about it the wrong way and she's going to know all about it.

We've spoken to several other neighbours and none of them have a problem with our dogs. How could they, nearly every house has dogs, and they all bark!! Even the neighbour that complained has a tenant living at the back of their house with a little white fluffy thing that yaps ALL the time.

Good idea about the diary though. In fact the ranger called me a 2nd time, cause when the complainant said we had the dogs in "cages", she thought we had pitbulls or dangerous dogs and just wanted to confirm. She said our neighbour reckons they bark non-stop from 6.30 in the morning. I told the ranger I take them out from 6.30-7.30 and then they're in the house with me till I leave at 8.30!!! The ranger has a staffy too and kept telling me not to worry that she can tell I'm a responsible owner and that we're doing the right thing. She's already caught the neighbour lying on two counts now. HA!

All that aside though, we accept there may be a barking problem and we're looking into remedying it.

[Poodle wrangler]

If you do decide to go for an antibark ecollar- they're far cheaper to buy overseas, but it's illegal to import them ;).

I emailed customs about it and they said federal laws apply to them and state laws apply when you buy within Australia.

Still didn't make 100% sense to me, but they'll confiscate it on the way through customs.

Good luck. Hope everything works out OK.

We have a PITA neighbour who flaty refused to believe that her dog barked when she was out. She blamed our dog, though there's a bit of difference b/w the bark of a 30kg Goldie and an 8kg miniature poodle :rolleyes: .

"Never barks when I'm at home". Too exhausted from barking the rest of the day ;)

[Denis Carthy]

E-Pulse collars are the only that will stop all dogs, with a good collar exceptions are extremely rare and thats down to the technological advances of digital.

There are quite a lot of them and you really need to get the right one or it might not work on your dog e.g. some only have 3 levels, many dogs ignore it, the owner did no research and thinks they are all the same so gives up.

Cutting it short, the Petsafe De Lux anti bark is the best all round collar, it has 18 levels in total and wil cover the vast majority of dogs within those levels, that collar is activated by two things, a bark vibration detector and a sound detector, if both are activated together it goes off, this eliminates other sounds setting them off and bumps which might occasionally happen with some of the cheaper or lower spec collars and happens frequently with spray collars, hope that helps.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Denis Carthy

[Guest Steph & Bam]

Any more updates on this Ruthless??

I'm kinda curious about the end result

[ruthless]

Not yet. Our nice neighbour on the other side has been keeping a diary for us and she said they don't bark much. I've started giving them Rescue Remedy which she said made a noticeable difference. Today they barked more than usual but she reckons that was because they were with us all weekend, and it was on and off for an hour at about 9.30 [when they finished their Kongs?] and again a little bit around 4.30 [when the other neighbourhood dogs were being walked?]. I plan to video them tomorrow morning, but I'll only get 90mins before the tape runs out. Hopefully if there's anything to be seen it'll happen then!

I've been reading about separation anxiety and ways to teach your dog to be happy alone. We do a lot of the stuff already, but we're guilty of quite a few no nos, such as spending too much time with them

I found this article pretty useful if anyone's interested.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/separation-an...dogs/page1.aspx

[Guest LoveMyCuddledog]

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the sonic bark collars? My boy is quiet at home (according to the neighbours) but loses the plot in the car. I have used the electronic collars in the past but don't like how Triton reacts to them ignoring the lesser hits until he gets a big one and then reacting as if in a great deal of pain.

Can someone please give me some info about anti-barking collars? ... I've asked the other neighbours and they said they've no issue with our dogs.

Ruthless has asked me to pop on in here .....

I think the first couple of things you need to establish are :

• Is the complaint issued a genuine one (ie Are your dog/ss really nuisance barking)?
  
• If it is, WHICH dog is barking
  

There could be a lot of time spent in your enquiries when there might not even be a problem to deal with.

However :

Have you spoken to the Ranger to find out some more details? The person who lodged the complaint would have (I expect) had to have given some account of the problem, such as when the barking seems to start (eg. time of day) and for how long. The person lodging the complaint may even have identified something which might have started it off (eg. when people walk past etc. etc. etc.)

I think that's your first port of call.

From the above information you might gain some idea of how long it is before your dog/s begin barking after you've left. Armed with that knowledge you can then set the situation up. IE Prepare to leave but instead of heading off somewhere, duck around the corner and listen. If you know your dogs' individual barks well enough, you may even be able to identify who the 'culprit' is. That will identify which dog you need to address.

An alternative to all of that is to either purchase or hire a 'spy' or 'security' cam ..... This will not only answer all of the above, but if the nuisance barking is not coming from your dogs, you'll also have evidence of that.

It's pretty hard to treat a problem unless (a) you know there is a problem and (b) you know which dog is exhibiting the problem. It's pretty hard to address the cause of the issue unless you can know what is triggering the barking behaviour.

Armed with this information, it will be just a little bit easier to help you, not only here but also in the event you elect to consult a trainer/behaviourist who may be able to eventuate a conclusion a lot faster than is possible over the net. The latter is recommended, given you've received notification of complaint from the Council, speed is of the essence. But if you cover the above first, you might find you don't need these services if it is that your dogs are not the problem.

But - as to your enquiry about anti-bark collars.

There are the JetAir collars - these spray a sharp spray of cold compressed air. I prefer them over the Citronella anti-bark collars - in fact I'm not particularly fond of the latter. Contrary to some belief, Citronella is toxic and some dogs can have an adverse reaction to it. In addition, the smell of the Citronella remains on the dog's coat .... well after the barking behaviour ceases. Success rate for the JetAir collars is about 65-70%. Don't quote me, but I think I recall reading that was a higher percentage than that of the Citronella. Can't be certain - so take this latter bit of info with a grain of salt until it can be proven that I remember correctly.

There are also the electronic Anti-Bark collars. I believe these are the collars that have the higher liklihood of success in solving barking issues - assuming an anti-bark collar is the appropriate method to address the problem in the first place. There are numerous brands, but the ones I prefer are those that have variable stim level settings. Steve (K9 Force) sells two or three varities and if you found it an appropriate method to address your dog/s barking, I'd recommend you email him for advice and prices.

Remember though ..... if the barking (assuming the allegation is proven) is due to something such as anxiety or boredom, addressing the symptom is not going to address the cause, and this may make the issue worse or may serve to manifest itself in other ways. If the barking relates to anxiety, I don't advocate use of anti-bark collars .... particularly in instances where I have not first had opportunity to observe the dog first-hand.

Hope the above has been a little bit helpful. Difficult to be specific when we don't even know at this stage if there IS a problem and if there is, with which dog, when or why. So as per above, first thing's first ..... take steps to establish as to whether you really have a problem to deal with or not.

[Cosmolo]

Hi Love my cuddle dog What type of collar did you use before and over what time period? Has he always barked in the car?

[Erny]

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the sonic bark collars?

In essence, the general concensis of opinion (through experience) has been that they might work in the very short-term but that the dogs become accustomed to the sound they emit and therefore the startle factor, which is really what it mostly incites, becomes lost.

As for your electronic anti-bark collar - do you have one of the ones that starts at a low stim and escalates upwards if/when the dog continues to bark?

If this is the case, discussions I have had with others indicates that these can produce problems. They sound good in theory, but some dogs learn to work them out. And like yours, as seems to be the case, don't perceive the stimulation until it reaches what is possibly an over-stimulation. That your dog gets to bark some of the time (through the lower level stimulation) is not congenial to training your dog not to bark.

The anti-bark collar that I have recently deployed has a dial where you set the stimulation to suit the dog. IE Where the stimulation is effective for every time the dog barks but where it is no more intense than is necessary to be effective. This brand and style of collar was recommended to me by K9 Force, and was not before he and I entertained a number of conversations about the variety of anti-bark collars that are presently available.

My preference is to consult with the owner and observe their dog (including asking questions) to as closely as possible determine the cause of the barking behaviour (for the reasons I've mentioned in my post that you've quoted). A further and certainly no lesser importance the consultation serves is to determine the dog's temperament as suitable for use of the electronic anti-bark collar.

I didn't take a moment to pause and look to see what State you reside in (if your profile gives that information at all) but you should know that in Victoria legislation provides that :

• You obtain permission from your Vet to be allowed to use the electronic anti-bark collar with your dog; and
  
• The electronic anti-bark collar be used under the supervision and instruction of a qualified dog trainer.
  

The reason behind the first of these two pre-requisits is because Vets supposedly are best able to determine your dog's temperament suitability and a qualified trainer can explain, guide and assess appropriate stimulation levels of the collar. I'm not sure about the first pre-requisite - numerous Vets (disclaimer : not all) don't have the opportunity (or even sufficient knowledge of behaviour) that trainer/behaviourists have of observing and assessing temperament nor do many Vets understand how the more suffisticated electronic anti-bark collars operate.

ETA: Notice you live in Perth. I have no idea what the laws for use of electronic devices on dogs are in your State.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Erny

[Erny]

LMC - in relation to your dog's barking behaviour occurring only in the car and just as I posted earlier, you need to determine the cause of the barking. Is it fear? Is it excitement and if it is, is it the anticipation of where he's going, or excitement elicited by the movement of travel .... or both? Or is it something else?

If your dog has fear of travel then I would not recommend the use of an anti-bark collar. Instead you need to desensitise your dog to the car/car travel to allay his fears.

If it is excitement, have you tried crating him (crate training first) and travelling with a blanket over the crate?

We here at the other end of cyberspace can't determine the cause for you so if you are not sure what the cause is, it might help to engage the services of a behaviourist who will be able to observe and perhaps better read the nuances of your dog's behaviour and body language.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Erny